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Thread: Police to interview Burke Ramsey RE: JonBenet. Possible break in the case?

  1. #61
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    I think it's easy to become obsessed with this case, it's just such a tragedy. I live in hope that it'll eventually be solved, somebody will crack or slip up and there'll finally be a resolution to it. I actually just watched Perfect Murder Perfect Town, it was pretty hard going but an interesting watch none the less. Hopefully Burke will talk to the police, it can only help at the end of the day.
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  2. #62
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Here is some information from Crimelibrary.com that makes the case for a murderer from outside the house:
    • A footprint made by a Hi-Tec stamped hiking boot was found in the concrete dust of the wine cellar. The boot has not been connected to any of the Ramseys or to the 400 people or more who have been to the Ramsey house.
    • An unidentified palm print was found on the door of the wine cellar. It does not belong to John, Patsy or Burke Ramsey.
    • A pubic hair was found on the blanket in which JonBenet was wrapped. It does not belong to John, Patsy or Burke Ramsey.
    • A piece of broken glass was found under a basement window. The window was open and the sill showed signs of disturbance.
    • There was a scuff-mark on the basement wall below the window. Someone had to have climbed in or out of this window (however, no footprints were found outside the window).
    • The duct tape and the cord used in the murder were not found in the Ramsey house. The offender must have brought them in and taken them out when he/she left the house after the murder.
    The list of possible suspects in this case is enormous. Not only did the Ramseys have hundreds of guests through their home at various times, they also had a large number of trades people that worked on an extensive remodeling project on the house. One theory suggested that because the Ramseys had given out a number of house keys to friends, one of them may be responsible. If that is true, why then would the killer bother to enter via a basement window? (Assuming that is where the entry was made)

  3. #63
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    -Burke Ramsey owned a pair of Hi-Tic hiking boots. The footprint found in the cellar was determined by police to have been Burke Ramsey's and to have been made prior to the murder. That was revealed in the grand jury testimony and announced by Boulder police in 2002.

    -The palm print in the cellar was identified by police as being Melinda Ramsey's, John Ramsey's adult daughter's, and having been made some time before the murder (Melinda was not in the state when her little sister was killed). The Ramseys' own lawyer agreed that the palm print was Melinda's.

    -Patsy's sister was allowed to remove several suitcases and garbage bags filled with stuff in the days following the murder. No one thought to examine what she was removing but that was probably where the duct tape and anything else incriminating not already found by the police went.

    -The broken glass and any disturbance found underneath the cellar window was no doubt left over from several months prior, when John Ramsey stated that he had broken that same window and crawled in it when he was locked out of the house.
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  4. #64
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    I have read too much to believe that any of the Ramseys had anythimg to do with this. It isn't hard to think anyone could have been in that house hours before they came home. It would be easy to hide out in such a big house. They would already have pinpointed with room was a little girls.
    No way did they kill that child, nor did a little boy. It was done by a pro who had done it before & probably did again.
    None of the best profilers believe it either. And they have looked at real, solid evidence, not this trumped up stuff.
    You would have to be totally nuts to think a 9 year old boy had anything to do with it! There would have been a mountain of evidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I have read too much to believe that any of the Ramseys had anythimg to do with this.
    I've read too much to think it could have been anyone else.

    There isn't a single piece of evidence that an intruder was in the house that night.

    What is a "pro" when it comes to murdering little girls, btw?
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  6. #66
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I have read too much to believe that any of the Ramseys had anythimg to do with this. It isn't hard to think anyone could have been in that house hours before they came home. It would be easy to hide out in such a big house. They would already have pinpointed with room was a little girls.
    No way did they kill that child, nor did a little boy. It was done by a pro who had done it before & probably did again.
    None of the best profilers believe it either. And they have looked at real, solid evidence, not this trumped up stuff.
    You would have to be totally nuts to think a 9 year old boy had anything to do with it! There would have been a mountain of evidence.
    Totally agree. There is a mountain of evidence though and it supports the intruder theory. I haven't seen any evidence to show any of the Ramsey's did a thing - it's all just speculation.

    To clear up a few things:
    Lou Smit is a joke and has been discredited?? By whom? The Boulder Police dept and DA? Here is an obituary for him:
    Lou Smit

    Detective who defended Ramseys dies in Colorado at 75

    The Associated Press
    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. (AP) — Longtime police detective Lou Smit, who first investigated and then supported Jon Benet Ramsey's parents, has died, a hospice spokeswoman confirmed Thursday.
    Smit, 75, had cancer and died Wednesday at Pikes Peak Hospice in Colorado Springs. Hospice spokeswoman Robin Witten said he had a steady stream of visitors.
    Smit's long career included years as an investigator for the Colorado Springs Police Department and the El Paso County sheriff's office, where he was captain of detectives. His dogged police work was credited with helping lock up more than 200 killers.
    He became known nationally when he was coaxed out of retirement to help investigate the 1996 death of 6-year-old Jon Benet Ramsey, who was found beaten and strangled in the basement of her parent's Boulder home Dec. 26, 1996. Smit later resigned because he believed authorities were wrongly focusing on the parents, John and Patsy Ramsey.
    Smit said unidentified DNA under JonBenet's fingernails and on her underpants pointed to an intruder as the culprit, not her parents. He later worked for the Ramseys.
    "The point is there is foreign DNA. There is common foreign DNA. It is not John. It is not Patsy. It is not (JonBenet's brother) Burke," Smit said in a 2001 interview. "So just to take this and say it's degraded and throw these beautiful clues away, you can't do it. You have to plug these clues into the intruder side of the story as well."
    In 2008, former Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy publicly exonerated JonBenet's family in the girl's death.
    Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer in 2006 in Atlanta, where the family moved after JonBenet's death.
    Smit helped solve other high-profile slayings in Colorado, including the 1975 rape and murder of Karen Elisa Grammer, the sister of actor Kelsey Grammer. Freddie Glenn was convicted in her abduction, rape and murder.
    Smit was hired out of retirement in 1995 to help solve the slaying of 13-year-old Heather Dawn Church, who was abducted from her El Paso County home in 1991. Robert C. Browne pleaded guilty to first-degree murder in the case and was sentenced to life in prison.
    Lou Smit d. 2010 - Obituary - Tributes.com

    So, he had investigated literally hundreds of homicides and helped put away murderers of cold cases. His outstanding record speaks for himself. And so what if he was a Christian and prayed with the people he worked with? It would automatically get many people to bring down their guard and open up to him, and Smit believed it was a reason why he was so successful in getting convictions. 33 years as a homicide detective with a high success rate speaks volumes and does not sound like a man who can be bought and sold.
    Last edited by Wiseguy; October 12th, 2010 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Too long.


  7. #67
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    I've read too much to think it could have been anyone else.

    There isn't a single piece of evidence that an intruder was in the house that night.

    What is a "pro" when it comes to murdering little girls, btw?
    If you had read enough, you would know. The device used on her was something only a deranged mind could dream up. Everything points to a sexual sadist. And a practiced one.
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    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    Totally agree. There is a mountain of evidence though and it supports the intruder theory. I haven't seen any evidence to show any of the Ramsey's did a thing - it's all just speculation.

    To clear up a few things:
    Lou Smit is a joke and has been discredited?? By whom? The Boulder Police dept and DA? Here is an obituary for him:
    So, he had investigated literally hundreds of homicides and helped put away murderers of cold cases. His outstanding record speaks for himself. And so what if he was a Christian and prayed with the people he worked with? It would automatically get many people to bring down their guard and open up to him, and Smit believed it was a reason why he was so successful in getting convictions. 33 years as a homicide detective with a high success rate speaks volumes and does not sound like a man who can be bought and sold.

    Having solved hundreds of murders indicates only that he and his team of fellow officers were proficient at their jobs. Doesn't mean he was well liked or regarded by co-workers or even respected as a diligent investigator.

  9. #69
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Hour View Post
    Having solved hundreds of murders indicates only that he and his team of fellow officers were proficient at their jobs. Doesn't mean he was well liked or regarded by co-workers or even respected as a diligent investigator.
    He had 33 years experience as a homicide detective and was seen as a specialist in child homicide. He was asked to came out of retirement to help solve murder cases which had gone cold, which he did successfully. Also, two other detectives resigned from the Ramsey case as they also believed that an intruder killed JonBenet and were frustrated that the Boulder Police refused to consider obvious evidence of an intruder.

    Smit's unpopularity came from his success in getting the Ramsey's cleared by the courts and causing the Boulder detectives to have egg on their faces.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    -Patsy's sister was allowed to remove several suitcases and garbage bags filled with stuff in the days following the murder. No one thought to examine what she was removing but that was probably where the duct tape and anything else incriminating not already found by the police went.
    Yeah, seriously, WTH!

  11. #71
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmmdee View Post
    Yeah, seriously, WTH!
    So, now the criminal conspiracy involves at least three adults? In order to explain why they couldn't find the duct tape? I'm not sure I buy that.

    I do agree, though, that from everything I've read, the circumstances and behavior of the Ramseys doesn't look right.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    .

    To clear up a few things:
    Lou Smit is a joke and has been discredited?? By whom? The Boulder Police dept and DA? Here is an obituary for him:

    You do know that obituaries are obligated to be kind, right? No one gets an obituary that emphasizes the damning parts of one's character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post

    Smit's unpopularity came from his success in getting the Ramsey's cleared by the courts and causing the Boulder detectives to have egg on their faces.
    Smit's unpopularity was due to the fact that he manufactured evidence, broke police procedure and accepted millions from the primary suspects in a case to stymie a legit investigation.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    So, now the criminal conspiracy involves at least three adults? In order to explain why they couldn't find the duct tape? I'm not sure I buy that.

    I do agree, though, that from everything I've read, the circumstances and behavior of the Ramseys doesn't look right.
    It's not a criminal conspiracy so much as how badly the Boulder cops bungled things from the get-go.

    There is a huge difference between 1) we secured the scene and couldn't find duct tape and 2) we allowed friends and relatives in and out of the crime scene, taking bags with them without our examining them, and couldn't find duct tape.
    Last edited by Tati; October 12th, 2010 at 05:56 PM.
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  13. #73
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    You do know that obituaries are obligated to be kind, right? No one gets an obituary that emphasizes the damning parts of one's character.
    Actually, there is no journalistic requirement to make an obituary read like a hagiography.

    It's not a criminal conspiracy so much as how badly the Boulder cops bungled things from the get-go.

    There is a huge difference between 1) we secured the scene and couldn't find duct tape and 2) we allowed friends and relatives in and out of the crime scene, taking bags with them without our examining them, and couldn't find duct tape.
    I think the problem here is that it is too convenient to assess that the duct tape was carried off with the other belongings. If I were moving things out of my sister's place, I think duct tape wouldn't be high on my list unless I was deliberately trying to abscond with it.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Actually, there is no journalistic requirement to make an obituary read like a hagiography.



    I think the problem here is that it is too convenient to assess that the duct tape was carried off with the other belongings. If I were moving things out of my sister's place, I think duct tape wouldn't be high on my list unless I was deliberately trying to abscond with it.
    That doesn't matter. In terms of evidence for a clean investigation with good trial potential, the cops couldn't say that there was definitively no duct tape, since they didn't secure the scene.

    Even if Patsy's sister was just leaving with clothing and toiletries, the fact that her bags were not examined means the Boulder cops failed at their duties. In fact, no one should have been allowed in that house at all. When the cops arrived, the house was flooded with people, the cops didn't even keep track of Patsy and John's movements. It wouldn't take a big o' conspiracy to "lose" duct tape or any other evidence under the conditions the Ramseys manufactured after the crime.

    When was the last time you read an obit that excoriated the dead or even dangled the temptation for controversy?

    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    If you had read enough, you would know. The device used on her was something only a deranged mind could dream up. Everything points to a sexual sadist. And a practiced one.
    Actually, nothing pointed to a sexual sadist. Everything did point to a staged scene by someone who thought she/he knew how sexual sadism works.

    What device are you speaking of? The garrote? It was made of materials that belonged to Patsy.

    What "pro" sexual sadist doesn't bring his/her own weapons and toys?
    Last edited by Tati; October 12th, 2010 at 05:57 PM.
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  15. #75
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    That doesn't matter. In terms of evidence for a clean investigation with good trial potential, the cops couldn't say that there was definitively no duct tape, since they didn't secure the scene.

    Even if Patsy's sister was just leaving with clothing and toiletries, the fact that her bags were not examined means the Boulder cops failed at their duties. In fact, no one should have been allowed in that house at all. When the cops arrived, the house was flooded with people, the cops didn't even keep track of Patsy and John's movements. It wouldn't take a big o' conspiracy to "lose" duct tape or any other evidence under the conditions the Ramseys manufactured after the crime.
    The Boulder cops definitely failed at their duties - right and left. However, there was still no duct tape found, and assuming that this is an item that anyone would have removed when gathering up items/belongings doesn't seem to make a lot of sense - at least as an inadvertent thing. "Can't forget the duct tape!"

    With regard to the Hi-Tech boots, I read the testimony about Burke owning some. However, it appears that he didn't own the boots, and they weren't in the house, when they did a comparison of the print to everyone else's. So, did those disappear with the duct tape? And what about the hair (not belonging to the Ramsey's) found in the blanket Jon Benet was wrapped in?

    I still believe, though, that the evidence and circumstances reveals the Ramsey's behavior to be inexplicable at times, bordering on someone covering up a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    When was the last time you read an obit that excoriated the dead or even dangled the temptation for controversy?
    A less-than-flattering obituary, starting with the headline:

    Kenneth L. Lay, 64, Enron Founder and Symbol of Corporate Excess, Dies

    By VIKAS BAJAJ and KURT EICHENWALD
    Published: July 6, 2006
    Kenneth L. Lay, the son of a Baptist preacher in rural Missouri who rose to the pinnacle of corporate America as head of Enron before becoming a symbol of corporate excess, died yesterday in Aspen, Colo. He was 64.

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