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Thread: Police to interview Burke Ramsey RE: JonBenet. Possible break in the case?

  1. #31
    Hit By Ban Bus! rockchick's Avatar
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    i always thought he did it. She was loved and pampered, he was shut up in his room with video games.

  2. #32
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    So now more facts come out:

    Burke was on college campus last May when Boulder Police officers gave him a business card and told him to call if he ever wanted to talk. They never asked him to come in or conducted an interview. The attorney for the Ramsey was also interviewed where he pointed out that the case had been removed from Boulder Police and taken over by the DAs office because they mis-handled the case. Now there is a new DA and he kicked the case back to Boulder Police as a cold case. The Ramseys believe that the Boulder Police are just trying to upset Burke as payback for the family making them look bad. They also said that the Boulder Police are the ones who leaked the info that they had been in touch with Burke hoping to stir some press. They once again reviewed the facst that the investigators have said the evidence porves the family did not kill her.
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    This is going to be like the Kennedy assassination - the truth will come out in someone else's lifetime - perhaps.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzy View Post
    According to one of those links posted there was a palm print on the cellar door that didn't match any family or friends. Not sure if I knew that before or not.
    It was from weeks earlier, when workman were in the basement during renovations.

    The outside window had NOT been tampered with. There were undisturbed cobwebs in the window and the very dusty sill had no evidence of any recent disturbance.

    Patsy killed her daughter and then staged the scene to throw suspicion on some mysterious foreign faction/sexual pervert that she dreamt up in her loony brain.
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  5. #35
    Elite Member sweetness's Avatar
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    I'm not sure who did it, but feel certain it was not Burke. He knows nothing about any of it.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by olivia View Post
    The DNA was so old and degraded it probably got on the underwear in the factory where it was made.
    Agreed. Someone could have sneezed at the plant and that's where it came from. There is also the chance of contamination of the crime lab testing materials. This happened win Germany just a few years ago, the Phantom of Heilbronn. The police thought they had a female serial killer with fourteen deaths and numerous other crimes attached to her. Turned out the factory that made the cotton swabs wasn't using sterile conditions and the DNA was from one of the factory workers.

    Germany's Phantom Serial Killer: A DNA Blunder - TIME

    Germany's Phantom Serial Killer: A DNA Blunder

    By Claudia Himmelreich / Berlin Friday, Mar. 27, 2009




    German detectives believe evidence linking 14 murders to a phantom female serial killer was caused by contaminated swabs
    Bernd Weissbrod / EPA



    The murderer dubbed the Phantom of Heilbronn had been baffling German investigators for two years. The criminal was a rarity, a female serial killer, and a very busy one: police had linked DNA evidence from 40 crimes — including the infamous homicide of a policewoman in the southern German town of Heilbronn — to the same woman.



    Police had found her DNA on items ranging from a cookie to a heroin syringe to a stolen car. They had put a $400,000 reward on her head. Profilers from around Europe were called in to help hunt her down. The police even consulted diviners and fortune-tellers in hopes of discovering her identity. The papers declared the case "the most mysterious serial crime of the past century." (See pictures of fighting crime.)



    The police thought they'd been looking everywhere. But it turns out they should have been looking down — at the cotton swabs they were using to collect DNA samples. On March 26, German police revealed that the cotton swabs they use may have all been contaminated by the same worker at a factory in Austria — and that the Phantom of Heilbronn never existed.
    For the second time in a week, DNA evidence has led German police down a dead end. "Are the heads of our police stuffed with cotton wool?" asked a headline in this week's Bild newspaper. The Phantom is now considered the most embarrassing lapse in German DNA analysis yet.



    The Phantom became a national celebrity in 2007, after the murder of 22-year-old policewoman Michele Kiesewetter. All of Germany watched the case unfold, and Heilbronn police alone racked up 16,000 hours of overtime pursuing the culprit. Police announced they'd found DNA traces matching that of the Phantom on several cold cases, including a murder dating back to 1993. (See pictures of cults that went wacko.)



    But as they studied the evidence, contradictions emerged that possibly should have raised red flags. The Phantom was not only a brutal killer — suspected of committing six homicides — but also a common thief. She had been involved in a car-dealership robbery and a school break-in, but in both cases others convicted of those crimes denied her existence.



    The Phantom's list of accomplices showed no pattern, ranging from Slovaks to Serbs, Albanians to Romanians, and her territory stretched throughout Germany and into Austria and France. No one had ever seen her, no security camera had ever captured her image. But when witnesses described her, they sometimes said she looked like a man.



    It wasn't until earlier this year that investigators figured something had to be very wrong. Trying to establish the identity of a burned corpse found in 2002, they were re-examining the fingerprints of a male asylum seeker taken from his asylum application made many years earlier. The fingerprints contained the Phantom's female DNA. Impossible, they thought, so they repeated the test with a different cotton swab — and this time found no trace of the Phantom's DNA.



    This raised suspicions that the DNA found at all the Phantom's crime scenes might be traced to a single innocent factory worker, probably employed to package the swabs. Cotton swabs are sterilized before being used to collect DNA samples, but while sterilizing removes bacteria, viruses and fungi, it does not destroy DNA. (Read a TIME cover story on DNA.)



    Earlier this year, Austrian authorities began decommissioning all cotton swabs manufactured by Austrian company Greiner Bio-One International AG after they had made a similar discovery, with a different mysterious DNA donor. On Thursday, several German states admitted to using that same brand of cotton swab. An investigator from the state of Baden-Württemberg told Bild newspaper: "The things were double-packaged; we thought they were the Mercedes of cotton swabs." But the Austrian manufacturer hurried to declare Thursday night that "Greiner Bio-One cotton swabs are not certified for DNA analysis."


    Berlin police spokesman Michael Merkle tells TIME that the city's investigators are now checking whether they also use cotton swabs from Greiner Bio-One. "A consequence of the present case may be to start randomly checking the cotton swabs we are supplied with for traces of DNA — which, in turn, harbors the risk of contaminating them," he says.
    Stefan König of the Berlin Association of Lawyers says the case of the phantom Phantom illustrates the risks of basing an investigation solely on DNA evidence. "DNA analysis is a perfect tool for identifying traces," he says. "What we need to avoid is the assumption that the producer of the traces is automatically the culprit. Judges tend to be so blinded by the shiny, seemingly perfect evidence of DNA traces that they sometimes ignore the whole picture. DNA evidence on a crime scene says nothing about how it got there. There is good reason for not permitting convictions on the basis of DNA circumstantial evidence alone." (See the retail DNA test.)



    And the case isn't closed yet. Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office is investigating the theory that certain batches of cotton swabs could have been contaminated at some point in their production, from when the raw cotton was picked to when the swabs were packed. Forensic analysts in Stuttgart have been testing unused cotton swabs for the Phantom's DNA but say that so far they have found no evidence of contamination. For the German police, it would be a relief to discover that the mysterious female serial killer doesn't actually exist. But it would also be a bitter confirmation of the thousands of man-hours wasted chasing a ghost — and of the 40 criminal investigations that are now back to square one.






  7. #37
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    So now more facts come out:

    Burke was on college campus last May when Boulder Police officers gave him a business card and told him to call if he ever wanted to talk. They never asked him to come in or conducted an interview. The attorney for the Ramsey was also interviewed where he pointed out that the case had been removed from Boulder Police and taken over by the DAs office because they mis-handled the case. Now there is a new DA and he kicked the case back to Boulder Police as a cold case. The Ramseys believe that the Boulder Police are just trying to upset Burke as payback for the family making them look bad. They also said that the Boulder Police are the ones who leaked the info that they had been in touch with Burke hoping to stir some press. They once again reviewed the facts that the investigators have said the evidence proves the family did not kill her.
    This makes a lot of sense to me. I don't believe the Ramsey family had anything to do with JonBenet's death and there is plenty of evidence to show that an intruder sexually assaulted her and murdered her. The Boulder police screwed this case up so badly that a lot of the early information implicating the Ramsey's has been disproved.


  8. #38
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    I can't believe someone murdered that girl in her own home and used the Ramsey's tape, rope and Patsy's broken paint brush, then sat in the kitchen while everyone was sleeping and wrote a 3 page ransome note on the Ramsey's paper.

    Meryl doesn't even try anymore. She just calls Lanvin and asks for curtains with a belt.~Bitter
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  9. #39
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprynkles View Post
    I can't believe someone murdered that girl in her own home and used the Ramsey's tape, rope and Patsy's broken paint brush, then sat in the kitchen while everyone was sleeping and wrote a 3 page ransome note on the Ramsey's paper.
    It's not unusual at all for a killer to use items nearby the victim, and use those items to attack or kill them. Also, the ransom note was probably written before JonBenet was killed, with the intent to abduct her.

    There was clear evidence of a break in, of a stun gun used to silence her when she was taken from her bed and unknown male DNA was found in her panties as well as unknown DNA from underneath her fingernails.

    JonBenét Ramsey murder case

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pVsm5_JQZY[/YOUTUBE]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/youtube]


  10. #40
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    That guy does make some good points, like Patsy would have been too upset to write that note. But I'll never be convinced she didn't until someone else says they did it. It's her writing, and the dollar amount is a strange thing.

    Meryl doesn't even try anymore. She just calls Lanvin and asks for curtains with a belt.~Bitter
    Can we interest you in Leann Rimes? She has a nice little cadre of fans you'd probably enjoy.~ Pecan Pie

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    It's not unusual at all for a killer to use items nearby the victim, and use those items to attack or kill them.
    Agreed. However it's usually a common household object; knife from the kitchen, golf club, baseball bat, hammer, vase, etc. Not a paintbrush handle used to make a garrote. It's a very unusual weapon that takes time to create. Since it has been determined it was one of Patsy's brushes that was used, that means the killer would have had to either decide that the weapon they brought sucked and looked to replace it or come in the house empty handed and then bypassed weapons that would be easier to use (large/heavy/blunt object) or 100% guaranteed to be there like a kitchen knife or the pillow on her bed to smother her with.

    I've never read anything that states if the cord used in the garrote was from the house or not. If the killer brought it in why bother making a garrote? Why not just choke her with the cord? Why go to an extra step that increases your time in the house and ups the odds of you being caught? Unless you being in the house mucking around with the paint brushes isn't a suspicious act... because they're your paint brushes and it's your house.

  12. #42
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprynkles View Post
    That guy does make some good points, like Patsy would have been too upset to write that note. But I'll never be convinced she didn't until someone else says they did it. It's her writing, and the dollar amount is a strange thing.
    Handwriting experts testified that Patsy did not write the ransom note:

    Evidence Patsy Ramsey is Not the RN Writer

    Summary Findings Favorable to Patsy Ramsey

    No BPD-Hired Experts Identified Patsy as RN Author. "During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF P 205; PSMF P 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF P 191; PSMF P 191.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF P 195; PSMF P 195.) [Emphasis added.]
    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Pa...y+as+RN+Author
    The DA made a stupid mistake by saying the parents were the prime suspects very early in the case, yet at the same time, Boulder police unbelievably did not even bother to test for DNA evidence on the most obvious points of evidence. The DNA evidence alone totally exonerates the Ramsey's, as it would in any other murder case.


  13. #43
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    The ransom note that was addressed only to "Mr Ramsey" and forgot the Mrs? Why would these kidnappers bother to address a note, would the Ramseys think it had been left there accidentally if their name wasn't on it?

    And which handwriting sample are you referring to? The one she gave originally that was determined to be a disguised sample of her true handwriting or the historical handwriting that was obtained only with a search warrant ?

  14. #44
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 75Sasha View Post
    The ransom note that was addressed only to "Mr Ramsey" and forgot the Mrs? Why would these kidnappers bother to address a note, would the Ramseys think it had been left there accidentally if their name wasn't on it?

    And which handwriting sample are you referring to? The one she gave originally that was determined to be a disguised sample of her true handwriting or the historical handwriting that was obtained only with a search warrant ?
    From my understanding, Patsy was ambidextrous, and she provided multiple samples of her handwriting, and police also used samples from their holiday home. Six handwriting experts said it was written by neither Patsy or John. Also, the ransom note was quite long, making it very difficult to disguise handwriting.
    Agreed. However it's usually a common household object; knife from the kitchen, golf club, baseball bat, hammer, vase, etc. Not a paintbrush handle used to make a garrote. It's a very unusual weapon that takes time to create. Since it has been determined it was one of Patsy's brushes that was used, that means the killer would have had to either decide that the weapon they brought sucked and looked to replace it or come in the house empty handed and then bypassed weapons that would be easier to use (large/heavy/blunt object) or 100% guaranteed to be there like a kitchen knife or the pillow on her bed to smother her with.

    I've never read anything that states if the cord used in the garrote was from the house or not. If the killer brought it in why bother making a garrote? Why not just choke her with the cord? Why go to an extra step that increases your time in the house and ups the odds of you being caught? Unless you being in the house mucking around with the paint brushes isn't a suspicious act... because they're your paint brushes and it's your house.
    Lou Smit (hired by Boulder police to try to implicate the Ramsey's - he instead found that they could not have killed JonBenet) summed it up well:
    Says Smit: “They hired me as a detective to look at this case. They may not like what I say but I’m gonna say it. I don’t think the Ramseys did it. And I think they ought to start looking for people that did.”

    Smit says the answer is in the evidence: the autopsy report; the intricate garrotte used as a murder weapon; the strange marks on her back; a mysterious footprint; and, most important, the information found in the DNA report. “The person who did this was very brutal and very vicious,” says Smit.

    What convinced Smit that someone other than the Ramseys killed their daughter? First and foremost, it was the brutality of the crime. Nearly all of the medical experts who have seen the autopsy report agree that this was not an accidental death. JonBenet Ramsey was deliberately and cruelly murdered.

    JonBenet was strangled, not once, says Smit, but twice, with an intricately-made device known as a garrote, which had to have been made by the killer during the murder. Why? Because the garrote had hair intertwined with it – JonBenet’s hair.

    “It’s a device, says Smit, that was not left there for show. Whoever killed JonBenet used the garrote to strangle her.

    Smit believes that JonBenet was fighting for her life. There were marks that look a lot like scratches on her neck. “JonBenet was trying to take that off of her neck,” says Smit. “She did have her own DNA under her fingernails. She was struggling with that garrote. Whoever was there with her knew that she was struggling. This is a very vicious strangulation.”

    At some point, the child was then hit over the head with such force it crushed her skull. But her nightmare wasn’t over. Shortly before she died, investigators believe she was sexually assaulted with a piece of the paintbrush that was used to make the garrote.

    The evidence, says Smit, imply does not support the popular theory that the Ramseys struck their daughter and then tried to cover it up.

    “There is no motive for a parent to do this,” he says. “It’s not a mother waking up in the middle of the night saying, ‘Oops, I think I hurt my child. Oops, I gotta bring her downstairs and fashion one of these things. Then I’m gonna put it around her neck and I’m gonna tighten it a couple times while she’s struggling. And then I’m going to bury that thing so deeply in her neck that you can hardly see it.’ And JonBenet at that time is struggling with the garrote. Now if you want to believe that, go ahead. I’m not gonna stop anybody. If you want to believe her mom did that, go ahead. I can’t say this on the air but that’s bull___.”
    This is the last picture of JonBenet:


    The last picture of JonBenet, taken Christmas morning 1996 with her mother Patsy. She was murdered that night by an intruder


    I think the beauty pageants made JonBenet a pedophile's dream and her killer has probably done this to other children as well.


  15. #45
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    "Lou Smit (hired by Boulder police to try to implicate the Ramsey's - he instead found that they could not have killed JonBenet) summed it up well:"

    Lou Smit became a Ramsey shill for lots of money and a book deal.

    Smit's credibility is completely shot. He gave all the withheld police information to a pedophile in Thailand to later identify the guy as a culprit. No one believes a single thing Smit has to say anymore since he totally violated police procedure for the Ramsey$$$.

    There was, in fact, zero evidence of an intruder in the Ramsey house that night.

    Patsy did it.
    Last edited by olivia; October 10th, 2010 at 02:37 PM.
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