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Thread: Paris shootings and explosions near Stade de France kill 18

  1. #181
    Elite Member Belt Up's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    i think the plan was as deutsche explained. but i think they always knew that security not letting them in was a possibility so they blew themselves up anyway because any kind of explosion at an iconic place like the stade de france (with the president in attendance to boot) would cause a major distraction from the other attacks in the city. it wasn't dumb at all imo.
    where the french were very smart was in letting the game go on despite the blasts and i'm pretty sure they jammed cell phone reception in the stadium too because people reported that they couldn't text or receive messages and didn't start to find out about what was going on until late in the second half when the game was almost over. very smart move on behalf of french security, it avoided mass chaos.
    The French aurthotities and police handled the whole sorry mess so impressively, they put our Bobbies with their riot shields and truncheons to shame.
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  2. #182
    Elite Member Bellatheball's Avatar
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    Obama just gave a speech saying "According to my closest advisers (action) would be a mistake. Not because our military couldn't march into Mosul and temporarily clear out ISL. But because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before."

    WTF. Do nothing? That's the strategy?

  3. #183
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    The second part of his statement is important:

    "It is not just my view but the view of my closest military and civilian advisers that that would be a mistake," Obama said, adding that's "because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before, which is if you do not have local populations that are committed to inclusive governance and who are pushing back against ideological extremes, that they resurface, unless we're prepared to have a permanent occupation of these countries."
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellatheball View Post
    Obama just gave a speech saying "According to my closest advisers (action) would be a mistake. Not because our military couldn't march into Mosul and temporarily clear out ISL. But because we would see a repetition of what we've seen before."

    WTF. Do nothing? That's the strategy?
    It is a big Shia/Sunni mess, with the Saudis probably sponsoring ISIS, Iran sponsoring Syria, Turkey not really caring as long as somebody is shooting at the Kurds, and Putin just wanting to try out his advanced weaponry.

    I would arm and support the Kurds to the hilt and strategically bomb ISIS when and where needed.

  5. #185
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Bombing people is not going to prevent a terrorist cell or even a lone gunman with a weapon from shooting up a restaurant or concert venue.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  6. #186
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Bombing people is not going to prevent a terrorist cell or even a lone gunman with a weapon from shooting up a restaurant or concert venue.
    No, but they are going to bomb a cafe whether we bomb them or not. And collapsing infrastructure in ISIS territories will hasten the failure of their state. A lot of people have already left or are trying to leave.

  7. #187
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    As we've executed the 'war on terror', we've proven that every time we kill a radical jihadist, we end up creating two more. It isn't about having the stomach to exterminate radical jihadists--it's about the fact that it can't be done.

    This is the reality of our world. Even a Muslim 'final solution' isn't going to stop random attacks, which is something I see suggested on the regular at places like The Blaze and RedState. People need to understand that. Yes, there are things we can do, but we will never put a stop to terrorism.
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    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    Bella, the Vatican spoke out because they know they are targets. How awesome would it be for ISIS to go and bomb/shoot up/terrorize the Christian capital of the world? Surprised they haven't tried it already.

    As far as Iran, I watched a PBS special several years ago, before Obama was elected, in regard to Iran. Behind the scenes, there is a very "western" section of government that communicates with the White House, but neither Iran or the Bush Administration would admit it. This section has been working with the more Muslim faction of government to get them to be more open to the West. Ultimately, I think Iran could be our biggest ally, but again, neither side would admit that. If the West and Russia went at ISIS from the Syria side, and Iran took the Iraq side, this would be the best option to taking them out. And, we need to take out the Caliph. I am very anti "boots on the ground" because I think that's exactly what they want, based on Mo's article from The Atlantic.

    I have mixed feelings on Israel. I think they bring most problems on themselves. I think they position themselves to be the vicitim, when at times the are the aggressor. I have read plenty of stories about their ability to seize and take over homes of the Palestinians. Since these jokers can not live next door to each other peacefully, I do think there should be a separate Muslim state, and the Muslims stay on their side, and the Israeli's on their side, with Jerusalem being a neutral holy ground enforced by the UN.
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  9. #189
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    Bella, the Vatican spoke out because they know they are targets. How awesome would it be for ISIS to go and bomb/shoot up/terrorize the Christian capital of the world? Surprised they haven't tried it already.

    As far as Iran, I watched a PBS special several years ago, before Obama was elected, in regard to Iran. Behind the scenes, there is a very "western" section of government that communicates with the White House, but neither Iran or the Bush Administration would admit it. This section has been working with the more Muslim faction of government to get them to be more open to the West. Ultimately, I think Iran could be our biggest ally, but again, neither side would admit that. If the West and Russia went at ISIS from the Syria side, and Iran took the Iraq side, this would be the best option to taking them out. And, we need to take out the Caliph. I am very anti "boots on the ground" because I think that's exactly what they want, based on Mo's article from The Atlantic.

    I have mixed feelings on Israel. I think they bring most problems on themselves. I think they position themselves to be the vicitim, when at times the are the aggressor. I have read plenty of stories about their ability to seize and take over homes of the Palestinians. Since these jokers can not live next door to each other peacefully, I do think there should be a separate Muslim state, and the Muslims stay on their side, and the Israeli's on their side, with Jerusalem being a neutral holy ground enforced by the UN.
    Unfortunately, Netanyahu has a bunch of people that are even more militantly expansionist than he is, and who he has to appease in order to keep his government from toppling.

    I think one of the biggest problems with Iran right now is that they are funding the Houthi insurgents in Yemen who have destabilized that country and are freaking out Saudi Arabia. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia is somehow helping fund ISIS so that Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah have to waste precious resources (and generals) fighting ISIS instead if causing even more problems on the Arabian peninsula.
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  10. #190
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    It seems that France has been able to launch very accurate air strikes on very specific IS targets. They obviously knew exactly where to go. They were also able to raid several homes in France and Belgium to arrest and question known "people of interest". They obviously already had the Intel so why the hell didn't they scoop these fuckers up before? Fears of accusations of racism and abuse of human rights from refugee and civil rights advocates no doubt.

    I note that dangerous idiot Obama still can't bring himself to use the "M" or "I" word in all his waffling platitudes. He may not like it but at times like this the world looks to America to show some backbone and leadership and he's supposed to be in charge. Not necessarily launching a new all out war in the Middle East; we're past that now and the battlefield has moved to the cities of Europe and before long to America too. But he has to be honest and say very clearly what and who we're dealing with.
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  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    I note that dangerous idiot Obama still can't bring himself to use the "M" or "I" word in all his waffling platitudes. He may not like it but at times like this the world looks to America to show some backbone and leadership and he's supposed to be in charge. Not necessarily launching a new all out war in the Middle East; we're past that now and the battlefield has moved to the cities of Europe and before long to America too. But he has to be honest and say very clearly what and who we're dealing with.
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  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    Bella, the Vatican spoke out because they know they are targets. How awesome would it be for ISIS to go and bomb/shoot up/terrorize the Christian capital of the world?
    Seriously?? So more innocent civilians die???
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  13. #193
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Bush didn't use the I or M words either, sticking with plain old 'extremists' or his favorite 'evildoers'. It's a US policy not to.

    If a President frames it that way you turn it into a holy war, and that only helps these fundies with recruitment. And as this long war requires the help of Muslims, its pretty clear why those phrases aren't used. Inflaming people you need help from is piss poor policy.

    It's also not a magic word like 'abracadabra', and saying it isn't going to make a bit of difference in this fight.


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  14. #194
    A*O
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    Maybe not, but a little honesty about what ideology motivates and inspires the jihadis to blow themselves up to kill as many innocent civilian "enemies" as possible might help people understand what we're facing.
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    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Unfortunately, Netanyahu has a bunch of people that are even more militantly expansionist than he is, and who he has to appease in order to keep his government from toppling.

    I think one of the biggest problems with Iran right now is that they are funding the Houthi insurgents in Yemen who have destabilized that country and are freaking out Saudi Arabia. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia is somehow helping fund ISIS so that Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah have to waste precious resources (and generals) fighting ISIS instead if causing even more problems on the Arabian peninsula.
    Saudi Arabia is a huge problem, and we've given them enough money over the years, they need to be held accountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by roslyntaberfan View Post
    Seriously?? So more innocent civilians die???
    I may have typed this to be interpreted incorrectly. I meant from an ISIS perspective, not from mine. For ISIS, it would be a feather in their cap to attack the Vatican.
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