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Thread: Ohio Town Protecting Football Player Rapists

  1. #46
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Got in a little hometown jam,
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    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    I don't think alcohol is the problem here either. These little shits would be the same drunk or sober, it's just that alcohol gives them an excuse for their bad behaviour. You don't live your life as a morally upstanding person and then act like an animal as soon as you're drunk, the animal is always there it's just well hidden.
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  3. #48
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Got in a little hometown jam,
    so they put a rifle in my hand
    Sent me off to a foreign land,
    to go and kill the Afghani man
    I wonder if Bruce improvises that live, because it actually works!

    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    I don't think alcohol is the problem here either. These little shits would be the same drunk or sober, it's just that alcohol gives them an excuse for their bad behaviour. You don't live your life as a morally upstanding person and then act like an animal as soon as you're drunk, the animal is always there it's just well hidden.
    I don't think I blame the alcohol either. I drank underage, so did most of my friends, and no one close to me did something like this, nor had it happen to them. I totally agree that being drunk can't turn you into a raging sexual predator. Sure, there are nasty drunks, but I don't think beer and Bacardi automatically turns a guy into a rapist. And it doesn't account for all the other guys who get drunk and manage not to rape anyone. I think it really is more the problem with schools and parents not doing their jobs and sweeping everything under the rug when they do get caught doing something stupid.
    Last edited by Waterslide; March 19th, 2013 at 07:13 PM. Reason: freaking typo
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    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    I'm trying to find the article but I believe she was drugged and then passed around, sexually assaulted and pissed on over and over again. I know the kids were all drinking..but it's not hard to know the line and when it's been crossed. They did it because they are nasty human beings.. alcohol or not.
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  5. #50
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    This conversation makes me wonder... is empathy taught or something innate in us?

    I'm struggling to understand how being spoiled and adored leads to what these boys did. I can almost get there ... no fear of punishment, believing you are above others etc, but what they did to her was beyond spoiled behavior to me. It's complete disregard for another person to the point where if that person lives or dies, who cares. Does that attitude really develop from lenient parents and adoring coaches? I don't know.

  6. #51
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Empathy is innate, but it must be re-taught after everything that happens to us as we grow up, where we learn that being empathetic isn't safe, isn't cool. Being rough, tough and respected gets you farther in life than being empathetic, vulnerable and following your own heart. I would bet not one of those kids stopped the action because they didn't want to not be one of the crowd - then you don't tell on the crowd. Fight Club rules.
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  7. #52
    A*O
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    It does boil down to poor parenting. Modern parents are encouraged to put their children on a pedestal and not impose any boundaries or discipline because it shatters the kids fragile self esteem and other bollox. The parents of these douches were probably raised the same way so they have no moral compass either and pass on their "values" to their little princelings. And if these shits ever did step out of line I bet it was either quietly ignored or excuses were made for them. They (parents and/or kids) certainly weren't ever held accountable.

    We see the same warped mindset in the Oscar Pistorius case.
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    Elite Member whitetigeress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    It does boil down to poor parenting. Modern parents are encouraged to put their children on a pedestal and not impose any boundaries or discipline because it shatters the kids fragile self esteem and other bollox. The parents of these douches were probably raised the same way so they have no moral compass either and pass on their "values" to their little princelings. And if these shits ever did step out of line I bet it was either quietly ignored or excuses were made for them. They (parents and/or kids) certainly weren't ever held accountable.

    We see the same warped mindset in the Oscar Pistorius case.

    In this case, I thank god I was taken in at age 3 and fostered by parents who were born in the 1920's. I was never hit or anything but I was taught from an early age to listen and damn I did. Never knew what the consequences were because I too scared to find out lol.
    I've raised my boys with the same old school mentality but in an even more tougher no nonsense 'tude than my parents did and I'll be damned if my boys misbehave in any way. They know this.
    This kind of parenting should be allowed then why the hell isn't it?!!!

    fragile self esteem<<--- say what?
    I swear the whole spanking is against the law thing ruined the kids.

  9. #54
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    No, it didn't. You can still impose rules and boundaries without hitting somebody.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

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    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    How does one "moose" the rules?

    Two Steubenville Girls Arrested for Allegedly Threatening Rape Victim
    The 16-year-old girl raped by two Ohio high school football players in a crime that has attracted wide attention has also been the victim of online harassment, the state's top prosecutor said late Monday.

    Attorney General Mike DeWine announced that two Steubenville, Ohio, girls have been arrested and charged with threatening the other girl. Cleveland's Plain Dealer writes that the alleged harassers are 15- and 16-years-old, and:

    "The 16-year-old is charged with one misdemeanor count of aggravated menacing for threatening the life of the victim on Twitter. The 15-year-old is charged with one misdemeanor count of menacing for threatening bodily harm to the victim on Facebook."
    "Let me be clear," DeWine says in a statement on his official website. "Threatening a teenage rape victim will not be tolerated. If anyone makes a threat verbally or via the internet, we will take it seriously, we will find you, and we will arrest you."

    According to Steubenville's Herald Star, police are also "pursing information about a juvenile male" who may have harassed the victim.

    As we reported Monday, DeWine plans to have a grand jury consider whether other teens should be charged in connection with the rape, which happened last summer. The two teenage boys were convicted over the weekend.

    The arrest of the two girls for allegedly harassing the victim online continues the crime's connection to the world of social media. Images of the victim and texts about her, posted by the boys who were eventually convicted of the crime and some of their friends, outraged many people around the nation and the world — and prompted an online movement to publicize the crime and push authorities to investigate.
    Jesus H. Christ.
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  11. #56
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    How does one "moose" the rules?
    autocorrect, you wiseass.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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  12. #57
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Why, thank you. I've been moosed!
    Life is short. Break the Rules. Forgive Quickly. Kiss Slowly. Love Truly.
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    Henry Rollins Reminds Everyone That Outrage Won’t Be Enough to Prevent Another Steubenville


    There has been, and will continue to be with a grand jury looming a month from now, no shortage of commentary about the Steubenville verdict. Some observers have reacted with victim-blaming protests to the delinquent verdicts handed down to Steubenville football players Trent Mays and Ma'Lik Richmond. Others have suggested that the two teenagers should have been tried as adults for raping and cruelly mocking an unconscious 16-year-old girl. One thing, however, is clear: outrage, no matter how well-founded or righteous, is not going to prevent future Steubenvilles. We need to take the opportunity that the very public Steubenville proceedings have presented to us in order to engage in a meaningful dialogue about how our society can do more to prevent sexual assault.

    Outrage is certainly a good place to start because it gives us all a common jumping-off point from where we can begin discussing the Steubenville rape case. We're all in agreement that sexual assault is a disgusting problem that all too leads to victim-blaming? Good — now what are we going to do about it?


    This is more or less where Henry Rollins begins his lengthy rumination about the Steubenville verdict. It's worth reading in its entirety, not least because Rollins asks a lot more questions than your average observer, and though he makes it pretty clear that we should all be in agreement that something must be done to address sexual violence, he isn't quite sure what that something is.
    What made these young people think that that what they did was ok? What was in their upbringing, the information and morals instilled in them that allowed them to do what they did, minute after minute, laughing, joking, documenting it and then calling it a night and going home? Out of all the people who were witness to what happened, why wasn't there someone putting a stop to it?


    What I am attempting to get at, and I apologize if I am not being clear enough is that this is a failure on many levels. Parents, teachers, coaches, peers all come into play here. I am not trying to diffuse blame or lessen the awfulness of what happened but I want to address the complexity of the cause in an effort to assess the effect so it can be prevented.


    Some might say that the two going to the youth facility are as much victims as the young women who was assaulted. I do not agree. The two are offenders. What they did was obviously wrong. That being said, we cannot end the discussion at that point and expect things to change.

    I have yet to say anything about the damage done to the young woman involved. It is ironic and sad that the person who is going to do a life sentence is her.

    So, where do we go from here? Earlier on, Rollins asks rhetorically what one one "learns" in the sort of juvenile detention facility Mays and Richmond are being sent to, and seems to follow the Socratic breadcrumb trail to the conclusion that the teenagers will probably not reflect on their heinous crime in any meaningful way:


    ...after five years locked away, does the idea of assaulting a woman seem like the wrong thing to do, more than if you were incarcerated for one year? Would you be "more sorry" about what you did? Is that possible? Or, would you just be more sorry for yourself about where your actions landed you? At what point do you get "better", how many years in one of these places does that take?


    If Rollins doesn't offer a concrete answer to any of these questions, it's only because the answers have to come from a lot of different places. Some fundamental things about the way women's bodies are commodified in pop culture, or the way American athletes are worshipped as demi-gods, or about how sex education is taught in this country's schools all need to change, and any sound discussion of Steubenville should lead us to take careful note of the many ways in which our culture creates an unequal gender divide that often encourages sexual objectification. When an actress, for instance, is reduced to a mere assemblage of sexualized body parts, her humanity becomes secondary. And dehumanization, Rollins argues, is what allowed the Steubenville football players to openly mock their unconscious victim:

    I think to a great degree, we humans still divide ourselves into two species, even though we are monotypic. There are males and females. We see them as different and not equal. Things get better when women get more equality. That is a bit obvious but I think it leads to better results up the road. If it's a man's world as they say, then men, your world is a poorly run carnage fest.


    It is obvious that the two offenders saw the victim as someone that could be treated as a thing. This is not about sex, it is about power and control. I guess that is what I am getting at. Sex was probably not the hardest thing for the two to get, so that wasn't the objective. When you hear the jokes being made during the crime, it is the purest contempt.

    Celebrity media is partially to blame for this "poorly run carnage fest," and Rollins suggests that, if we're going to sexualize so many female celebrities, then "sites like Huffington Post should have sections for male anatomy hanging out instead of just the idiotic celebrity ‘side boob' and ‘nip slip' camera." He then adds a very stern denunciation of victim-blaming aimed at all those in the media who point to a person's outfit, for instance, as "attention-seeking," as an open invitation to be objectified:

    I know what some of you are saying. "Then why do they wear clothes like that unless they want those photos taken?" I don't know what to tell ya. Perhaps just don't take the fuckin picture? Evolve? I don't know.

    You heard it from Henry Rollins — cultivating empathy for other people is how we start preventing instances of sexual violence like the most recent one in Steubenville. Anything less is unbefitting are evolutionary gift of self awareness.


    [Henry Rollins]
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    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    Celebrity media is partially to blame for this "poorly run carnage fest," and Rollins suggests that, if we're going to sexualize so many female celebrities, then "sites like Huffington Post should have sections for male anatomy hanging out instead of just the idiotic celebrity ‘side boob' and ‘nip slip' camera." He then adds a very stern denunciation of victim-blaming aimed at all those in the media who point to a person's outfit, for instance, as "attention-seeking," as an open invitation to be objectified:


    I know what some of you are saying. "Then why do they wear clothes like that unless they want those photos taken?" I don't know what to tell ya. Perhaps just don't take the fuckin picture? Evolve? I don't know.
    Sickeningly enough, speaking of objectifying women and their body parts, I saw this earlier today on Pinterest and some of the comments, all made by women, were actually agreeing with the "message" here.

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    It doesn't change anything, but the victim was drunk according to her own testimony. She is a very brave young woman to testify as she did. It breaks my heart that she was too embarrassed to ask what happened or ask for help when she got home. I would assume it was too late to get conclusive lab results from a rape kit, or drug screen, by the time it got the attention of the police.

    Alleged victim in Steubenville rape case takes the stand - CNN.com
    Alleged victim in Steubenville rape case says she woke up naked

    By Chelsea J. Carter and Poppy Harlow, CNN

    updated 11:36 AM EDT, Mon March 18, 2013
    STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    Judge set to issue decision on Sunday
    Alleged victim testified she woke up naked on a couch
    Judge did not allow questions about the alleged victim's past
    But one witness said the girl drank more than two shots and four beers

    Editor's note: Please note this story contains graphic language.

    Steubenville, Ohio (CNN) -- A teenage girl at the center of an alleged rape by two Steubenville, Ohio, high school football players broke down in court Saturday after being shown a picture of herself naked, saying she remembered little about the situation because she was drunk.

    The 16-year-old was the final witness in a trial that has captured national attention for the lurid text messages, cell phone pictures and videos and social media posts surrounding the alleged sexual abuse of the girl.

    A judge is expected to hand down his decision Sunday at 10 a.m. ET in the trial of Trent Mays, 17, and Ma'lik Richmond, 16, who are accused of raping the girl during a series of end-of-summer parties in August 2012.

    According to prosecutors, Richmond and Mays each penetrated the alleged victim's vagina with their fingers, an act that constitutes rape under Ohio law.

    Attorneys for the two boys say they are innocent. Mays also has been charged with disseminating a nude photo of a minor.

    The girl testified that she remembered drinking at the first big party of the night and then holding Mays' hand as she left with him, Richmond and others.

    The next thing she remembers, she told the court, was waking up in the morning naked on a couch in an unfamiliar house. She covered herself with a blanket while she looked for her clothes. She testified she could not find her underwear, earrings or cell phone.

    She testified she was "too embarrassed to ask what happened that night because I didn't remember."

    The girl told the court she had a flashback memory of throwing up in a street somewhere sometime after she left the first party.

    CNN's policy is not to identify alleged victims of sexual assault. CNN is not naming the minors who are testifying but is identifying Mays and Richmond, whose names have been used by court officials, their attorneys and in multiple media accounts.

    Trial focuses on text messages

    At the heart of the case is the question of whether the alleged victim was too drunk to understand what was happening to her and to consent.

    Mays and Richmond are being tried before visiting Judge Tom Lipps, without a jury. The trial is moving quickly -- and through the weekend -- to accommodate the schedule of the judge.

    If the two boys are convicted of the juvenile charges, they face the possibility of being jailed until they are 21.

    Earlier in the day, attorneys for Mays and Richmond challenged the memory and integrity of the alleged victim, calling two of the 16-year-old girl's former best friends to testify.

    One witness, a 17-year-old, testified the alleged victim told her she believed she had been drugged the night of the alleged assault, an allegation the witness said she did not believe because the girl "lies about things."

    The teen witnesses, who described themselves as classmates and former best friends of the girl, told the court they saw the alleged victim drinking. She drank at least four shots of vodka, two beers and some of a slushy mixed with vodka, a 16-year-old witness said.

    The defense attempted to question the two teens about the alleged victim's past history, but the judge did not allow most of the line of questioning. Ohio, like most states, has a rape shield law that limits the amount of information of an alleged victim's past that can be explored in court.

    The 17-year-old witness said she picked the alleged victim up the next morning from someone's home and asked her what happened.

    In the car, the alleged victim said, "We didn't have sex, I swear. I don't know what happened. I don't remember," the teen testified.

    Teen rape trial shines unwelcome spotlight on Ohio town

    On Friday, three teens, all self-described friends of the co-defendants, testified that they saw Mays and Richmond engage in sexual contact with the girl. All three have been granted immunity from prosecution.

    One of the witnesses -- identified as a 17-year-old Steubenville football player and wrestler -- testified that he used his cell phone to record Mays putting his fingers inside the girl's vagina during a drive from one party to another. He said he deleted the video the next morning when he realized it was wrong.

    The teen also testified that Mays later attempted to have the girl perform a sex act on him in the basement of a home.

    "She didn't really respond to it," he said.

    Evan Westlake, 18, a Steubenville football and baseball player, told the judge on Friday that he saw Richmond digitally penetrate the girl in the basement.

    When asked by prosecutors why he didn't stop the incident, he said, "It wasn't violent. I didn't know exactly what rape was. I thought it was forcing yourself on someone."

    Richmond's attorney, Walter Madison, challenged whether Westlake was trying to right a wrong through his testimony.

    "I felt a lot of regret, difficult to face my family knowing they knew what I had done," Westlake testified.

    Anthony Craig, 18, also testified Friday that he saw Richmond digitally penetrate the girl in the basement.

    "She wasn't moving. She wasn't talking. She wasn't participating," he said.

    Craig also admitted taking a nude cell phone picture of the girl while she was in the basement and showing it to friends.

    "It was stupid," he said.

    In earlier testimony, teens who attended some of the booze-soaked parties testified the girl appeared to be drunk, stumbling and slurring words. But on cross-examination some said she seemed able to walk and answer questions.
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