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Thread: Murder Appeal Raises Confederate Flag Issue

  1. #16
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    It's the Third National Flag- 'The Blood Stained Banner'. I didn't recognize that one either, so I googled it earlier. I'm a damn Yankee so I only know the battle flag, and the stars and bars. Lol.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member shedevilang's Avatar
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    That explains why I've never seen it, I wonder why they chose that one. I know there are a gazillion different flags (my ex was a civil war history buff and yes those people are insane) I've just never cared enough to know what flag stood for what.
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  3. #18
    Silver Member Popsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzy View Post
    It represents Scotland but I know the Scots prefer their own Scottish flag. Not sure about using it in Ireland.
    It also represents Northern Ireland, which understandably is not accepted by many.

    Just like the confederate flag, the Union Jack is outdated and historic.
    Wales and Scotland have their own governments so it's irrelevant.

    N.Ire and Scotland do not generally identify with the UJ flag. To hang it up in somewhere like Edinburgh or Armagh, you are asking for trouble. They prefer their own flags.

    Caused because of the other countries alienation towards England/London. Much like the mason/dixon barrier of America.

    More people call identify as English, N.Irish, Welsh, Scottish rather than 'British'.

    Excuse the rant.

  4. #19
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsicle View Post
    Let me guess, that was in the South?
    Yes, we're all the same here. Exactly the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    To many, yes, unfortunately.
    Then the people who assume prejudice in white people are also prejudiced against white people.


    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    why do they even fly the confederate flag anymore? you lost, deal with it. and given the nasty connotations associated with it, that's even more of a reason to give it up. i know that not all southerners owned slaves or supported slavery and that it's not all it stands for but that is what most people associate it with.
    People who feel like you do are just gonna have to deal with the fact that that is not what it represents to many of us. We are quite aware of the outcome of the war, and it's irrelevant. Some of the things that other cultures practice are repulsive to me, but I don't live there, and I don't fully understand. As backward and ignorant as I am, being from the south and all, I try to remember that.

    Now I do get uncomfortable when I see groups of rednecks with the flag all over their trucks, and the women are wearing confederate flag bikinis and everybody's drinking beer waving shotguns and rebel yelling & all, because they seem like extremists and extremists in any culture are alarming.


    Quote Originally Posted by shedevilang View Post
    The flag is part of a confederate memorial that stands outside the courthouse, it's a memorial for those who died during the war under that flag. And also that is not an official confederate flag, I don't know what the hell that flag is I'm going to research it some and I'll get back with ya'll lol.
    Yep.


    Having said all that, I see all this as the product of either a very smart or very dumb attorney who is bringing attention to his client's case. It might help or it might backfire. Personally, I think that the composition of the jury is suspect & even though it's quite possible for all of the white jurors to be objective regarding race, any reasonable person knows that it looks off. And who knows, it may have played a factor. If I was the guy's attorney, I wouldn't hesitate to use the mostly-white jury as grounds for an appeal. However, the flag part is grandstanding, IMO. That flag had nothing to do with the case.
    Last edited by Lobelia; May 11th, 2011 at 12:27 AM.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    but the flag + the suspicious composotion of the jury = gives their accusations of racism and discrimination more weight. i'd say it's a very smart move by the defence attorney.
    Last edited by sputnik; May 11th, 2011 at 01:51 PM.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    why do they even fly the confederate flag anymore? you lost, deal with it. and given the nasty connotations associated with it, that's even more of a reason to give it up. i know that not all southerners owned slaves or supported slavery and that it's not all it stands for but that is what most people associate it with.
    What? They lost? this here is news. The flag doesn't just represent slavery nor does it JUST represent a war. Do you make these same representations to other parties that have lost a war? Get rid of your flag, you lost!? Doubtful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia View Post
    Yes, we're all the same here. Exactly the same.




    Then the people who assume prejudice in white people are also prejudiced against white people.




    People who feel like you do are just gonna have to deal with the fact that that is not what it represents to many of us. We are quite aware of the outcome of the war, and it's irrelevant. Some of the things that other cultures practice are repulsive to me, but I don't live there, and I don't fully understand. As backward and ignorant as I am, being from the south and all, I try to remember that.

    Now I do get uncomfortable when I see groups of rednecks with the flag all over their trucks, and the women are wearing confederate flag bikinis and everybody's drinking beer waving shotguns and rebel yelling & all, because they seem like extremists and extremists in any culture are alarming.




    Yep.


    Having said all that, I see all this as the product of either a very smart or very dumb attorney who is bringing attention to his client's case. It might help or it might backfire. Personally, I think that the composition of the jury is suspect & even though it's quite possible for all of the white jurors to be objective regarding race, any reasonable person knows that it looks off. And who knows, it may have played a factor. If I was the guy's attorney, I wouldn't hesitate to use the mostly-white jury as grounds for an appeal. However, the flag part is grandstanding, IMO. That flag had nothing to do with the case.
    Exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^
    but the flag + the suspicious composotion of the jury = gives their accusations of racism and discrimination more valid. i'd say it's a very smart move by the defence attorney.
    yes, this flag played a HUGE part in this guy being convicted of the crime he fucking committed. Plus, who picked this jury? Did this guy's attorney not have a say in that at all?
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  7. #22
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^
    but the flag + the suspicious composotion of the jury = gives their accusations of racism and discrimination more valid. i'd say it's a very smart move by the defence attorney.
    You don't live in the southern US and you don't understand how the community there views the move, and that's the community that will determine the outcome of this case. It's not necessarily a very smart move for his client.

    I would bet that the attorney doesn't believe for a second that the flag had anything to do with his client's verdict, and I also think that his client is secondary to this whole argument anyway. It would be a great feather in a lawyer's cap to claim responsibility for getting the confederate flag removed from the courthouse. You can't buy that kind of advertising.
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  8. #23
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    that's also true. it could very well backfire. it's definitely a gamble. but if you get enough attention and enough arguments to make the original verdict look flawed or like it was the result of direct or indirect racism, it could work in the client's favour. and you're right, it could lead to the removal of the flag, which would be quite a personal victory for the lawyer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post

    yes, this flag played a HUGE part in this guy being convicted of the crime he fucking committed. Plus, who picked this jury? Did this guy's attorney not have a say in that at all?
    i never said it did. but you can get convictions overturned or appeals granted on technicalities or issues unrelated to the evidence presented in the case. it happens all the time. my guess is that is what they want to happen here.
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  9. #24
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    I can't see a murder conviction being overturned based on what flag flew outside the courtroom. but, hey... that's probably just me.
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  10. #25
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    why do they even fly the confederate flag anymore? you lost, deal with it. and given the nasty connotations associated with it, that's even more of a reason to give it up. i know that not all southerners owned slaves or supported slavery and that it's not all it stands for but that is what most people associate it with.
    Now, Sput! Really.
    I wonder if you would say that to - say- Japan or Germany.
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  11. #26
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    japan and germany didn't stop being a country though, even after they lost the war.
    the confederacy and their secessionist government ceased to exist after the war and all 11 confederate states were re-incorporated into the union.
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  12. #27
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    I would LOVE to see someone go in there and take those flags from those people.
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  13. #28
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    germany and japan? again, those countries didn't cease to exist after the wars. the confederacy only existed briefly, in the context of a civil war (whereas germany and japan was in the context of a world war involving several states) and its existence was contested, and then it was re-incorporated into the union. it was never a real country.

    eta: i just re-read your post and i think you meant you'd love to see someone go in and take the confederate flags away? not enough sleep this past week so i'm dumber than usual... if so, disregard the first part of my reply.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    germany and japan? again, those countries didn't cease to exist after the wars. the confederacy only existed briefly, in the context of a civil war (whereas germany and japan was in the context of a world war involving several states) and its existence was contested, and then it was re-incorporated into the union. it was never a real country.

    eta: i just re-read your post and i think you meant you'd love to see someone go in and take the confederate flags away? not enough sleep this past week so i'm dumber than usual... if so, disregard the first part of my reply.
    yes. it'd be a good laugh for me.
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  15. #30
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    it would be kinda fun.
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