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Thread: Moms killing kids not nearly as rare as we think

  1. #16
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    For me, I believe that the bond is very natural, almost instinctual. I can't fathom how a woman can give birth to someone and not love it and die protecting it. Still, I see it happen over and over again. It seems to me that a lot of women do it out of mental illness or because of or for a man. Remember Susan Smith? Obviously there was something wrong with her, but she drowned her two boys because the man she was seeing didn't want to be tied down to a woman with children. They were an inconvenience to her and something she needed to get rid of. Then you look at Andrea Yates and she was someone who was completely mentally ill and not prepared to handle those children.

    Whatever it is, bond or not, it's just sad to me.

  2. #17
    Elite Member FashionVictim's Avatar
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    Who was the one with the 4 or 5 kids that she drowned in the bath tub? The husband kept knocking her up and insisting on having a ton of kids, even though she had post partum pyschosis after each baby. Didn't he want to get her pregnant while she was in jail?! Asshole should be in prison too.
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  3. #18
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    I think you mean Andrea Yates.

    Andrea Yates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  4. #19
    Elite Member msdeb's Avatar
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    someone is trying to get in a billion posts before the bus hits her.
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  5. #20
    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    ^^ lol, the denial and avoidance runs deep with this one. Guess I'll take one last shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by estonia View Post
    I disagree with the article. Patsy Ramsey was blamed for the death of Jon Benet, Madeline McCaan's mother was treated scathingly in the press. In both situations the fathers were there yet the public seemed to believe the mothers did it. With missing child reports mothers are often looked at in a guilty way. Look at Kyron Hormon's case. The idea that people can't accept that mothers can kill their kids just doesn't seem true. When a kid is missing seems like the first person people look at is the mother, not the father, but the mother or stepmother. And even that archetype has gone back centuries with the "evil stepmother" trying to get rid of the children, ala Hansel and Gretel.
    Hansel and Gretel? Didn't you forget Cinderella?

    In the McCann and Ramsey cases, BOTH parents were looked at as suspects. I don't recall the public giving the fathers a free pass. Sure, there are theories that Patsy killed Jon Benet, but there are lots of other theories too. If either woman is guilty, I think the husbands helped to cover it up. JMO.

    In Kyron Horman's case, the father was ruled out and the stepmother was the last one to see the child alive. Does this mean people targeted her? Ummm no, it means she's the likely suspect.

    So, there's another theory of yours down the toilet, dear. Like the "poverty" one.
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  6. #21
    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    IMO, lack of mothering instinct does not cause murderous impulses. Murdering children - even unwanted children - is either a result of mental illness, or pure evil. There are plenty of women who would remain child free if they could do it over again, but they still raise their kids as best they can.

  7. #22
    Elite Member chartreuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^
    because for centuries now women have been told they have a maternal instinct and that they're biologically driven to love and protect their children and that to harm them in any way goes against nature.

    there is a really interesting book by a french philosopher and sociologist, elisabeth badinter, where she claims that the so-called 'maternal instinct' isn't biological at all but rather a social and historical construct dating back to the 17th and 18th centuries and that maternal love isn't as unconditional as women are told it is (and made to feel guilty if they don't conform to the stereotype of the mother who sacrifices her entire being to her children). rather, she states that like all human emotions, maternal love is uncertain and fragile and not all that different from other emotional bonds.
    i agree with the bolded. i'm going to look into reading some of her stuff, as i've found how true this is for me since becoming a parent.
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  8. #23
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    No it's not biological at all, other mammals only do it because of centuries of having the idea of maternal instinct crammed down their throats. Everyone knows those dogs/cats nursing a litter of another species only do it because society says they should.

    We are animals, sometimes animals do fucked up shit and eat their babies, too.
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  9. #24
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    Yes, there's definitely some biological stuff going on. I remember when I was pregnant with my second child...I had no inkling I was pregnant--it was right around the time my period was due, in fact, so it was very early one. I was at the grocery store and I found myself looking at the little babies in the shopping carts and getting tears in my eyes and just wanting to hold them.

    The feeling was so pronounced that I figured out pretty quickly I was knocked up. I have had a lot of respect for the power of hormones since then!

    Biological systems and processes are like anything else--they don't always work, and maybe they are not strong enough to overcome psychological disturbances. Furthermore, people are perfectly capable of acting against their instincts.

    I suspect it's biological instincts with centuries of social conditioning laid on top of it. I sure as hell reject the idea that every woman wants to or should be a mother.

  10. #25
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    No it's not biological at all, other mammals only do it because of centuries of having the idea of maternal instinct crammed down their throats. Everyone knows those dogs/cats nursing a litter of another species only do it because society says they should.

    We are animals, sometimes animals do fucked up shit and eat their babies, too.
    This!! There's a biological maternal instinct definitely. Not everyone will have it but it's there for most.

  11. #26
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    We are animals, sometimes animals do fucked up shit and eat their babies, too.
    Mmmmm. fetus.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  12. #27
    Elite Member shedevilang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Mmmmm. fetus.
    makes a wonderful appetizer
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  13. #28
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdeb View Post
    someone is trying to get in a billion posts before the bus hits her.

    What was her post count before she got hit the first time? I'm sure it was much higher since she had like 50 posts a day.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Mmmmm. fetus.
    I was once doing a horrid if and then, eventually I got to turning abortions into a soilent green type thing... Fetal pate was the end result. Delicious on toast points.
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  15. #30
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I think there are maternal responses that are biologically based in women. But that's not the same as innate maternal instinct. I tend to agree with Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on that.

    I think people are more shocked when women kill their children for two reasons- one: because social conditioning has led us to think that women are innately more nurturing than men. When a man kills his child we are horrified, if a women does we are not only horrified by the act but by our own conditioning to our beliefs about mothers. And two: because the child was physically connected to the mother in utero. The dichotomy of giver and taker of life.
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