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Thread: Mass Shooting - San Bernardino, CA

  1. #61
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    Second Amendment A Little Creeped Out By How Obsessed Americans Are With It

    WASHINGTON—Expressing its concern that the fixation had grown “a little out of control,” the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reported Thursday that it was pretty creeped out by how obsessed Americans are with it. “At first, the constant attention was flattering, but at this point, it’s starting to get kind of weird,” said the legal statute ratified in 1791, explaining how unsettling it was to hear U.S. citizens talking about it all the time and see all the comments written about it online. “Look, I understand that I’m a constitutional amendment and there’s a lot of admiration that comes with that, but that doesn’t mean you have to completely worship me this way. It’s not healthy. Maybe try to find something else to focus on—there are other amendments, too, you know? The 17th Amendment is great.” The Second Amendment later admitted how relieved it was to be protected from “all the psychos out there” by a 3/8-inch-thick pane of bulletproof glass.

    http://www.theonion.com/article/seco...view:1:Default
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  2. #62
    A*O
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    There's all kinds of worrying detail emerging now. Legal access to guns is the least of it. The dead shooters (husband and wife) had a house full of pipe bombs made according to instructions on jihadi websites. The FBI are investigating.
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    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    ^^^ haha, that was funny .... but,

    you our know what hurts my heart? My son will never be able to read the U.S. Constitution unless I teach him cursive writing. My district (and I suspect the rest of the country) has taken cursive writing out of the curriculum. As a former English student, obsessive journal writer (in cursive, of course) and lover of old Tudor era writings (written in cursive and a very weird syntax), it makes me want to weep. Not as much as all the senseless violence happening all over the world, of course, but you know what I mean.

  4. #64
    A*O
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    Why not enshrine gun ownership in the constitution to keep the NRA and other gun nuts happy, but highly control and regulate access to the bullets?

    Some Aussie friends have been living/working in Texas and Florida for the last 5 years. They came to visit recently and I was quite shocked about how pro gun they've become. He's always a bit aggressive alpha so I could imagine him carrying a weapon, but she's up for it too. They wouldn't give me a straight answer when I asked if they had guns in the house so I assume they do.
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    If Sandy Hook didn't advance gun control, I don't see this tragedy making much of a difference now that they've uncovered an arsenal of pipe bombs, etc. In fact, given the emerging evidence, the NRA et.al. are going to use this against gun control. But 355 mass shootings in the last year? That should be at the forefront of the story.


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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    And the GOP just voted again to not prohibit people on terror watch lists from buying guns legally....today.


    Gun measures fail in Senate - POLITICO
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  7. #67
    A*O
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    What's that old saying, "people get the government they deserve"?
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  8. #68
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Why not enshrine gun ownership in the constitution to keep the NRA and other gun nuts happy, but highly control and regulate access to the bullets?

    Some Aussie friends have been living/working in Texas and Florida for the last 5 years. They came to visit recently and I was quite shocked about how pro gun they've become. He's always a bit aggressive alpha so I could imagine him carrying a weapon, but she's up for it too. They wouldn't give me a straight answer when I asked if they had guns in the house so I assume they do.
    I'm not surprised about your friends that have visited Texas and Florida. Very, very pro gun states. They also have very pro right to defend yourself or your property laws.

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    From NBC.com

    San Bernardino Massacre Suspects Appear to Have Been Radicalized

    by F. BRINLEY BRUTON , KAREN LUCHT and ERIK ORTIZ





    Grim details emerged Thursday about the massacre at a California holiday party that left 14 people dead and 21 others hurt, but investigators are still trying to answer the key question: Why?
    The couple who unleashed the bloodbath Wednesday fired as many as 75 rounds at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino and tried to slaughter more with a rigged pipe bomb that never detonated, authorities said Thursday.





    San Bernardino Shooters Had Pipe Bombs, Thousands of Rounds of Ammo 2:14


    Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, who was born in Chicago, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, 27, were killed in a shootout with police a few miles away more than four hours after the rampage.
    The couple — clad in black tactical gear but not bulletproof vests — fired 76 more rifle rounds during a pursuit with police, San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan told reporters. Officers returned about 380 rounds.
    Authorities said they are still trying to determine why Farook and his wife attacked the Inland Regional Center.
    "We do not know the motive. ... It would be irresponsible of me and be way too early to speculate on motive," said David Bowdich, assistant director in charge of the FBI in Los Angeles.
    "There was obviously a mission here," Bowdich said. "We do not know why. We do not know if this was the intended target or something triggered him."
    Syed Farook in a driver's license photo. Nighswander, Matthew (502117585) / California Department of Motor Vehicles
    But authorities told NBC News on Thursday that Farook appeared to have been radicalized. They said he had been in touch with people in the Los Angeles area who have expressed jihadi-oriented views.
    Intelligence sources told NBC News that Farook appeared to have been in some form of communication with people overseas who are persons of interest to U.S. authorities.
    Farook and Malik had two .223 caliber assault-style rifles — a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 and a DPMS model — that were legally purchased and registered, Burguan said. They also had two 9mm semiautomatic handguns.
    They appeared to have tried to modify one of the rifles to be fully automatic, a senior law enforcement source told NBC News on Thursday. The modification failed, the source said.
    A fully automatic weapon fires multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger, while each shot from a semiautomatic weapon requires a separate trigger pull.
    The second rifle — possessed by Malik — was compliant with California's strict gun laws when it was purchased, but it had been modified to accept high-capacity magazines, the source said. Farook and Malik used what appeared to be multiple 30-round rifle magazines, some of which were taped together.
    Syed Rizwan Farook. iMilap.com
    In total, the pair carried more than 1,400 .223 caliber rounds and 200 more 9mm rounds during the gunbattle. The three pipe bombs found at the social services center were stitched together on a remote-controlled car, but for whatever reason, it didn't explode, he said.
    A search of a home connected with the couple turned up 12 pipe-bomb-type devices and a cache of ammunition, Burguan said — including 2,000 9mm rounds, 2,500 .233 caliber rounds and several hundred .22 Long Rifle rounds.
    Related: San Bernardino Shooters Used Four Guns, Explosive Device
    Police also confirmed that the couple had rented a black Ford Expedition three or four days before the carnage. The car, which was supposed to have been returned Wednesday, was used as their getaway.
    Farook, a San Bernardino County health inspector, initially attended the office Christmas banquet on Wednesday morning, but he left about 15 to 30 minutes before the shooting began around 11 a.m. (2 p.m. ET), officials said. Police received information by someone who was concerned about his behavior at the event.





    Investigators: San Bernardino Gunman Had Interest in Radical Jihad 2:20


    Farook traveled to Saudi Arabia at least twice, in 2013 and 2014, acquaintances and Saudi officials told NBC News.
    In 2013, he went on Umrah, a pilgrimage to Mecca. Nazeem Ali, 23, who attended Dar-Al-Uloom Al-Islamia mosque in Muscoy, a suburb of San Bernardino, with Farook, said Farook told him that he planned to meet the fiancée he had met online — Malik — and to get married at the Black Stone in the Grand Mosque of Mecca.
    Malik, who was of Pakistani background, arrived in the United States on a K-1, or fiancée, visa and attained permanent resident status by virtue of their marriage two years ago.
    Mustafa Kuko, director of the Islamic Center of Riverside, another mosque Farook attended for several years, told NBC News that Farook and Malik had their wedding reception at the center in 2013.
    Related: Politicians Face Backlash Over 'Thoughts and Prayers' Tweets
    Last year, Farook returned to Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Embassy in Washington confirmed Thursday. The embassy said he arrived in the summer and stayed for nine days. It gave no further details.
    In May, Farook and Malik had a baby, whom they left with Farook's mother, claiming they they had a doctor's appointment, said Farhan Khan, Farook's brother-in-law.
    The grandparents first became worried when they got a call from the media about 2 p.m. asking whether they knew that Farook was a suspect, Khan, who is married to Farook's sister, told NBC News.





    Mosque Member Says San Bernardino Gunman Was 'Living American Dream' 2:45


    "I just cannot express how sad I am for what happened today," Khan said Wednesday night at a news conference held by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim advocacy group. "I am in shock that something like this could happen."
    Khan said he had spoken with Farook a week ago, adding: "Why would he do something like this?"
    A profile under the user name "farooksyed49" on the dating website iMilap.com featured a picture of Farook, which Khan confirmed was his brother-in-law. It said the user was Muslim American born in Chicago.
    "Farooksyed49" wrote that he was looking for marriage who lived in "California/riverside" — a community about 11 miles south of San Bernardino. His age is listed as 22. IMilap.com describes itself as a "Site for People with Disabilities and Second Marriage."
    The user said he was from a "religious but modern family" and listed "Eastern and Western Mix" under family values.
    "Enjoy working on vintage and modern cars, read religious books, enjoy eating out sometimes travel and just hang out in back yard doing target practice with younger sister and friends," according to the profile.
    NBC News couldn't immediately confirm the authenticity of the profile.





    San Bernardino Attack Underscores Challenge Facing U.S. Intelligence 2:00


    Related: Here Are the Deadliest Mass Shootings in U.S. History
    San Bernardino Mayor Carey Davis spoke of his "shock" at the events Thursday morning on TODAY.
    "The priority has been public safety. Our police department responded as effectively and safely as they could," he said. "We need to stay on a high level of alert, but at the same time, we can't be paralyzed by these instances."
    Salihin Kondoker, whose wife was shot during the rampage, told TODAY that his son first learned of her involvement when a friend saw television images of her being treated at a hospital.
    Kondoker said his wife was recovering from gunshot wounds to her right arm.
    "She's doing remarkably well," he said. "She said bullets were flying all over the place. She corralled herself into the bathroom but realized her hands were bleeding."
    He said Wednesday's assault should be categorized as terrorism.
    "Any killing of a human being should be an act of terrorism," Kondoker said. "I think we need to control our gun law in this country. No matter what, any killing of any human being is an act of terrorism."
    "You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."

  10. #70
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I don't know if Clubber's article mentions it, but Farook also grew up in a situation with a tyrannical, unstable father who abused the mom and terrorized the family before she got a divorce from him. Sometimes, kids who experience that get a little bent or have issues with impulse control. That doesn't explain Malik, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I don't know if Clubber's article mentions it, but Farook also grew up in a situation with a tyrannical, unstable father who abused the mom and terrorized the family before she got a divorce from him. Sometimes, kids who experience that get a little bent or have issues with impulse control. That doesn't explain Malik, though.
    No, but it explains Hitler, who was raised under similar circumstances...

    I thought that there was a third shooter?
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    I saw an interview this morning that was very good as explaining why they are not yet saying this is a terrorist attack. They gave the legal definition which is helpful. Until they complete this investigation they will not categorize the horror as terrorism. They also explained that in other cases they can give the label right away because a group takes responsibility. In this case, no group has taken responsibility so it may be that this nut case and his wife, did research online, had some contact with people who are on a watch list, but were not connected to any known group of terrorist. If the act was just against co-workers, it will be labeled as work place crime, not terrorism.

    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investi...ism-definition

    Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

    18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

    "International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
    ◾Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
    ◾Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    ◾Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

    "Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:
    ◾Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
    ◾Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
    ◾Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

    18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:
    ◾Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
    ◾Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

    * FISA defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the U.S. with "totally" outside the U.S. 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).
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    I saw on the Today show that basically all of the Republican candidates have called this incident "radical Islamic terrorism"; have any of them referred to the Planned Parenthood attack as "radical Christian terrorism"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moongirl View Post
    I saw on the Today show that basically all of the Republican candidates have called this incident "radical Islamic terrorism"; have any of them referred to the Planned Parenthood attack as "radical Christian terrorism"?
    They should. That guy was "self radicalized", too.
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    Typical, they pick and choose everything. Of course it has nothing to do with the guns and gun laws. Why? Because California has some of the strictest gun laws and this still happened. Yeah, because it's not as if you can drive to any other state and just drive back with your guns. If someone is Muslim and commits a crime, it's automatically because they are a "radicalized Islamic terrorist". I'm not saying that they weren't, but as in the case with the Planned Parenthood attack, this guy isn't being called anything but mentally ill or unstable. And, of course, we must focus on the mental health issues and access to care here in the US and not focus on the shitty gun laws.

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