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Thread: Madeleine McCann's parents to be re-interviewed by police

  1. #196
    Elite Member Honey's Avatar
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    'Find Madeleine's body and prove we killed her': McCanns' challenge to police

    Kate and Gerry McCann have challenged the Portuguese police to produce their daughter Madeleine's body to prove they killed her.



    Without it, their lawyers believe, it will be extremely difficult for authorities in the Algarve to press charges.
    The couple threw down the gauntlet as it emerged Portuguese prosecutors want to seize Mrs McCann's private diaries and her husband's laptop computer. Scroll down for more...

    Mrs McCann and daugher Amelle on their way from their Leicestershire home to a playground

    Read more...



    They have submitted an 'emergency' request to a judge to authorise commandeering the ring-bound journals and Apple Mac as they prepare their case against the McCanns for alleged involvement in Madeleine's death.
    Police believe something Mrs McCann has written in her diary could unlock the mystery to the four-yearold's disappearance.
    Mr McCann uses his laptop to send emails and update his Internet blog which is read by hundreds of thousands each day.
    It was also reported yesterday that police want to confiscate Madeleine's toys, including her favourite Cuddle Cat, which her mother has carried everywhere since her disappearance.
    Mr McCann's sister, Philomena McCann, said the possibility that police might seize the toy was a 'disgrace', adding: "It would be extremely distressing for Kate because she has seen it as a symbol of her daughter since she went missing.
    "Why on earth do they ask for the toys now? Why didn't they think of this before?"
    Yesterday it emerged that lawyers in Britain acting for the McCanns have advised them the Portuguese authorities will struggle to press charges that stick.
    A close friend said: "The legitimate question to ask Portuguese police is: "Where is the body? Where's the evidence that Madeleine is dead?"."
    The friend said the McCanns' new legal team, based in London, had been working around the clock to 'get up to speed on the case'. Scroll down for more...

    Off to play: Gerry McCann and his two-year-old twin son Sean



    The couple's Portuguese lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, has hit out at his country's judicial system in a scathing interview with a local newspaper in which he declared: "Justice in Portugal is slow and incapable of producing proof."
    Friends of the McCanns believe they are the victims of a sinister campaign to frame them for Madeleine's disappearance after police botched the search to find their abducted little girl.
    The 39-year-old doctors have strenuously denied ever harming Madeleine and are devastated the hunt for her has been overshadowed by an attempt to 'set them up'.
    But in two days of police interviews in Portimao last week, detectives alleged there was damning evidence that Madeleine had been in the Renault Scenic they hired 25 days after she disappeared. They alleged bodily fluids, blood and hair corresponding to Madeleine's DNA had been found in the boot.
    Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias is now sifting through a 4,000-page police dossier as Madeleine's parents face an agonising wait to learn if they will be charged.
    He could take 'weeks' to study the contents of ten lever arch files, according to a friend of the McCanns, who said: "Our understanding is there's no filtering process whatsoever - everything is in there.
    "The judge has had the kitchen sink thrown at him."
    The judge will make a decision within ten days on key requests made by the prosecutor, Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses. Scroll down for more...



    These requests have not been made public, but are things Mr Meneses now believes need to be done to complete the case.
    A source in Portugal claimed that one of the requests was to bring Kate McCann back to be requestioned.
    And the whitewashed church in Praia da Luz that became a poignant focus of the McCanns' campaign is expected to be searched, with the judge present.
    It still has yellow and green Madeleine ribbons on the pews and altar.
    Roads around the church, which had deep holes dug by workmen at the time Madeleine vanished, could also be excavated.
    Portuguese sources said the prosecutor wanted police to re-interview the couple's friends and family.
    Detectives in the Algarve believe somebody could have helped them dispose of Madeleine's body, although the friends with whom they were on holiday have furiously denied such a 'hurtful' conspiracy.
    The couple were declared 'arguidos', or formal suspects, during police questioning in Portimao last Friday.
    They flew out of the country to their home in Rothley two days later.
    Last night the McCanns got a boost when the police case appeared to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key witness.
    Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.
    But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was 'absolute rubbish' she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."
    Sir Alec Jeffreys, the inventor of DNA fingerprinting, said he was prepared to act as an expert witness for the McCanns.
    He stressed that DNA matches on their own did not establish a person's innocence or guilt.
    Sir Alec told BBC TV's Newsnight: "There are no genetic characters in Madeleine that are not found in at least one other member of the family. "So then you have an incomplete DNA profile that could raise a potential problem in assigning a profile to Madeleine given that all other members of that family would have been in that car."

    'Find Madeleine's body and prove we killed her': McCanns' challenge to police | the Daily Mail

  2. #197
    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    Default Madeleine McCann: the key questions

    From Times Online
    September 10, 2007
    Madeleine McCann: the key questions


    David Brown looks at the puzzles and mysteries at the heart of the four month investigation

    What happened in the four hours before Madeleine was reported missing?
    Kate and Gerry McCann claim that while they dined at a restaurant with friends regular checks were made on Madeleine and their two-year-old twins, Sean and Amelie, at their nearby holiday apartment. Mr McCann told police he saw his daughter asleep at about 9pm. A friend, Matthew Oldfield, entered the apartment at about 9.30pm but did not look in the bedroom Madeleine and the twins were sharing.
    It is not known if anyone apart from Mr and Mrs McCann saw Madeleine alive between 6pm and 10pm, when she was reported missing by her mother. The timing is crucial but would be only circumstantial evidence in any prosecution. Although a small child could be killed quickly it would take time to hide a body so that it was not discovered in the biggest search in Portuguese history.


    Why did Kate McCann cry out “They’ve taken her?” when she discovered Madeleine missing?
    Portuguese police are reported to find it suspicious that Mrs McCann immediately believed that more than one person had taken her daughter. This could suggest that she knew who had taken Madeleine, perhaps people who thought they were helping Mrs McCann by removing her daughter’s body.
    Alternatively, it could be an off-the-cuff remark by an hysterical mother or perhaps was misheard or misunderstood in the confusion of the night.


    What were the movements of the McCann’s friends on the night Madeleine disappeared?
    The McCann family had stayed at the Ocean Club resort with three other British couples and their five children, and a single woman. Russell O’Brien, a doctor from Exeter, left the restaurant for half an hour to look after his own daughter, returning shortly before Madeleine was reported missing.
    His wife, Jane Tanner, was the only witness to report a man carrying away child from the McCann’s apartments. There is confusion about when members of the party arrived at the tapas restaurant and left to check on their own sleeping children.


    How much alcohol did the McCanns and their friends drink on the evening Madeleine disappeared?
    Kate and Gerry McCann and their friends are reported to have told detectives they shared four bottles of wine, with another two barely touched before Madeleine was discovered missing.
    However, it is claimed detectives have recovered a bill showing they downed eight bottles of red wine and six white during the afternoon and evening.


    Why was Madeleine’s bedroom window and shutter open?
    Kate and Gerry McCann told police that the window shutter in Madeleine’s bedroom, which could not been seen from the restaurant, had been forced open.
    Police tests showed the heavy metal shutter had not been forced up from the outside, so must have been pulled open from inside the room. Assuming that the abductor entered through the apartment’s unlocked patio windows, why would he or she not leave by the same way or the use the front door?
    Or was the window opened to make it appear as if an intruder had used it to enter the bedroom?


    Why did Madeleine’s sister and brother sleep through her “abduction”?
    Sean and Amelie were heavy sleepers who were not disturbed by their sister’s abduction, claim their parents. However, they also slept through their mother’s hysterical response to Madeleine’s disappearance and the presence of dozens of people who joined the search before being carried out by a female police officer. Kate and Gerry McCann have strenuously denied sedating their daughter.


    Why were the McCanns allowed to leave Portugal if they are suspects?
    The Portuguese authorities allowed the McCanns to return to the UK after they agreed to reside only at their home in Rothley and to return for further questioning if necessary.
    Portugese law states that after someone is declared a suspect, police have eight months to conclude the investigation into that individual. If they require further time officers can apply to the courts for a four-month extension.
    If the McCanns refused to comply with a request to return to the Algarve for interview, Portuguese police could issue a European Arrest Warrant under which extradition can be carried out within six weeks.


    Why has it taken so long to find the evidence that could implicate Kate and Gerry McCann?
    The material was only collected at the end of July and early August in a review of the investigation carried out by Portuguese detectives with the help of British police and two sniffer dogs. Many of the samples are very small, containing just a few cells, while others are of poor quality because of damage by cleaning or simply the passing of time.
    A full report of the findings will not be ready for weeks, but many results have already been passed to the Portuguese authorities.


    What evidence were police looking for?
    Detectives are searching for any evidence that proves Madeleine is dead or contradicts the accounts of Mr and Mrs McCann and other witnesses.


    What is the most important new evidence?
    It appears the Forensic Science Service believes it has discovered compelling new evidence, possibly from more than one source. Portuguese detectives told Mrs McCann repeatedly that they found traces of Madeleine’s blood in a Renault Scenic hired three weeks after she disappeared, suggesting that the missing girl’s parents used the vehicle to carry her body. It is possible to tell if the blood came from a living person or from a corpse, and even the time of death. However, some reports suggest that the quality of the blood sample was too poor to confirm the origin while others have denied any blood was found in the vehicle and claim it was other “bodily fluids”. Unless a body had been placed in a freezer, it would have badly decomposed during the warm weather; leaving a mass of traces invisible to the human eye.


    Does any trace of Madeleine in the hire car prove she was killed?
    No. Mr and Mrs McCann hired the car to buy new clothes in the town of Portimão a day before they flew to Rome to see Pope Benedict XVI. They then used it regularly for family outings and to collect friends and relatives from Faro airport. They continued using the car until shortly before flying home yesterday. Kate and Gerry and their two-year-old twins would have often carried in the car items used by Madeleine. These items could easily certainly carry Madeleine’s hair and minute traces of skin, dried blood, saliva and vomit. The same could be said of the holiday apartments used by the McCanns and their friends in the Ocean Club resort. However, if the blood came from Madeleine’s corpse the only other highly unlikely explanation would be that a previous hirer had moved the body.
    One report suggested yesterday that Madeleine’s DNA had been found on the floor of the McCanns holiday apartment, but because of degredation it was based on an incomplete picture, with only 15 of the 20 genetic markers usually used for such analysis.


    What is the DNA evidence that has supposedly been found by the Portuguese investigators?
    Newspapers in Portugal have been reporting that “biological fluids” with an 80 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA have been found underneath upholstery in the boot of the McCanns’ rented Renault Scenic. Some media reports claimed that another DNA sample with a 100 per cent match to that of Madeleine’s profile had been found in the car.


    What would this tell us?
    Perhaps nothing. If it was sourced from something such as a hair follicle or skin cells then that could have been one of Madeleine’s hairs that had stuck to the clothes of a family member or her “cuddle cat” toy that her mother carries. If it was from Madeleine’s blood or corpse, that could be more significant. The most important issue is the size of the sample found. If there was a substantial amount of material it is unlikely to be from accidental contamination and would indicate that Madeleine had been in the car.


    Can investigators establish if the DNA sample comes from someone who was alive or dead?
    Unlikely, according to British experts. A DNA profile does not change just because someone dies. You can tell if DNA has degraded but that can happen if, for example, it had been exposed to sunshine.


    Does an 80 per cent match with biological fluids indicate that Madeleine was definitely in the car?
    No. The sample will have been tested against a definite sample of Madeleine’s. A 80 per cent match indicates that profilers could find only 16 of the 20 markers usually used for such analysis and suggests that the biological traces are tiny and degraded. Additionally, the twins Sean and Amelie could share a high percentage of DNA characteristics as most siblings do.
    What complicates the matter further is that all three of the McCanns’ children were born through IVF and it is unknown whether the couple’s sperm and eggs were used for conception.


    What about the discoveries of the “cadaver” sniffer dog?
    Mr and Mrs McCann were shown a police video of a sniffer dog used to find corpses “going crazy” when it approached the hire car. Reports also claim that is discovered the scent on the vehicle’s key fob. Mrs McCann is reported to have explained that in her work as locum GP she came into contact with six corpses in the weeks leading up to Algarve holiday.
    This seems a high number for a locum GP working just a couple of days a week but would be easy to check against surgery records.
    The crucial difficulty with the sniffer dog “evidence” is that it cannot distinguish between corpses. This type of dog is trained to find bodies, not identify where dead bodies have been. Crucially, they can become excited by other scents.


    Any evidence of Madeleine’s death on Cuddle Cat?
    The cadaver dog is alleged to have become excited when shown Madeleine’s favourite soft pink toy, called Cuddle Cat. The cat had become poignant symbol of a mother’s loss as Kate McCann carried it with her at all time from the night of Madeleine’s disappearance.
    She washed it four days after the police tests, claiming it had become dirty. The toy was potentially crucial evidence and should have been seized by police very early in the investigation.


    What evidence can be found in Mrs McCann’s Bible?
    Mrs McCann, a devout Roman Catholic, claims that police told her that a crumpled page in her Bible was evidence that she was involved in the death of her daughter. The page contained a passage from Samuel II, chapter 12, verses 15-19, which recalls how man’s child is stricken with illness after he “scorns” the Lord.
    The man fasts for seven days, refusing to get up off the ground, to try to gain redemption — but eventually his child dies. Mrs McCann claims that detectives told her that damage to the page proved she had been reading it.


    Why are the McCanns suspects in their daughter’s killing?
    Portuguese police refuse to say why the couple have been made official suspects. Under Portuguese law police can not question someone as if they had committed a crime unless they are a “suspect”. It could simply be that police wanted to ask the couple about the evidence they had collected, and that the seriousness of the process has been misunderstood and exaggerated by cultural and language differences. The McCanns believed that they were about to be charged with Madeleine’s death, but it does not appear police disclosed any crucial evidence to them.
    All parties have strenuously denied any wrongdoing.
    Madeleine McCann: the key questions - Times Online

    "The howling backwoods that is IMDB is where film criticism goes to die (and then have its corpse gang-raped, called a racist, and accused of supporting Al-Qaeda)" ----Sean O'Neal, The Onion AV Club

  3. #198
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    So,they were drinking for 4 hours,lied about how much they drunk and the twins remained sleeping through the screaming and searching...interesting..

    Quote Originally Posted by Honey View Post
    Er...we don't drive on the "wrong" side of the road

    Or were you kidding?
    Hmmmmm,far as i know,only in UK,Cyprus and Japan,they drive this way,so for the rest of us,this is the wrong side .
    Last edited by Tati; September 13th, 2007 at 07:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    There was a famous case in Australia -- a movie was made out of it, Cry in the Dark (aka Evil Angels) with Meryl Streep -- where a woman was convicted of killing her child, primarily because she didn't cry, fall apart the way people thought she should have. She was composed, almost unnaturally so, but she wasn't guilty. A dingo really did steal Lindy Chamberlain's baby and her conviction was overturned on appeal. Everybody reacts differently to grief/trauma. Saying a person must be guilty because they don't react the way you or I would, is dangerous at best.
    I saw that movie. If I'm remembering right, the mother was villified because she didn't make a big show of distress. You're exactly right, some people react differently.

    I really don't want to find out that they killed Madeline.

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    She is the unluckiest GP in the universe with all of those dead patients. My mum's 78 year old G.P has only been exposed to slightly more dead bodies than that and most of them were at the start of his career when he was an intern at a hospital.

    If I was her patient and wanted to live I would run a mile from her.

    Is it just me, or is 14 bottles of wine between 8 people a lot? I know if I had my share of that I would be too legless to walk and check on my child.

    I have gone from thinking they did it to not being convicted. Maybe they are just guilty of bad pareniing and have paid a high price for it?

  6. #201
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    ^^She is an anesthesiologist, not a GP. Her profession is one of the most high risk in medicine since she works only in the OR. It is not uncommon for people to die during, or after, operations. Even minor ones carry risks. Anesthesiologists are generally considered to have one of the most difficult, stressful jobs in medicine and they go through long years of training.

    Her husband is a GP, and she probably makes more money than him. In fact, I'm sure of it.

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    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    I've never seen her referred to as an anesthesiologist before. All the news accounts I've seen call her a GP and him a heart specialist.

    "The howling backwoods that is IMDB is where film criticism goes to die (and then have its corpse gang-raped, called a racist, and accused of supporting Al-Qaeda)" ----Sean O'Neal, The Onion AV Club

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    ^ That's what I heard too twitchy.
    Scariest Halloween mask ever > > >

  9. #204
    Elite Member twitchy's Avatar
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    Found both of them in the General Medical Council listings.

    Gerry (as Gerald McCann) and Kate(under her maiden name of Kate Marie Healy):
    https://webcache.gmc-uk.org/ods/search.do


    She's been working as a locum, so she isn't even working full time. She's been on the GP register since 2006 and he's been on the specialist register since 2005. I suppose it's possible that she's also trained as an anesthetist. Not sure how to check that.

    Editing to add: I've found something that seems to clear this up!

    "Mrs McCann studied medicine at Dundee University and initially trained as a gynaecologist, passing her exams with flying colours. Then she changed tack, becoming an anaesthetist.She met Gerry McCann while they were junior doctors at Western Infirmary, Glasgow. When she went to New Zealand to work he followed her and they fell in love. The couple married in 1998 and moved to the Midlands two years later when Mr McCann became a cardiologist at Glenfield hospital in Leicester. Mrs McCann decided to become a GP so she could have more time with her husband and with the family they hoped for."


    "Mrs McCann spent a day and a half working as a GP in Melton Mowbray. Friends say they are a good team - Gerry more intent on furthering his career, Kate focused on the family." Source




    Interesting twists and turns in her training. I guess she decided that being a gynecologist wasn't what she wanted to do.
    Last edited by twitchy; September 15th, 2007 at 05:33 PM. Reason: trying to fix links

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    Elite Member Voodoo Child's Avatar
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    I might be in the minority here and maybe I have been reading too many errrmm *alternate* sites but I don't think the parents did this. I think that yes they used sedatives but I unfortunately think a sick paedophile ring has her.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Actually, her husband is a GP with a sub-specialty in cardiology. I erred in stating that Kate McCann is currently practicing as an anesthesiologist, but she was trained as one, and that certainly isn't something she can forget.

    And I'd be curious to see the source that states she has a lot of "dead patients." On the other hand, a busy GP would likely have several patients die a year without necessarily being directly responsible for any of those deaths. The sick, the elderly and even the young often die and a doctor, given the very nature of their profession, would likely be exposed to death more than most other people. I would guess that quite a few doctors of all kinds have "dead patients" every year.
    Last edited by pacific breeze; September 15th, 2007 at 11:26 PM.

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    Cadaver sniffer dogs are trained to react to the smells of human decomposition in corpses that have been dead long enough for those processes to begin. The only possible way a GP would have contact with a dead person would most likely be to sign a death certificate in someone who dies at home or maybe a nursing home without inhouse doctors and the deceased would have been dead a very short time indeed. Stinky dead bodies at crime scenes or accidents are dealt with by specilist forensic doctors/experts, not a locum GP from a neaby practice. Unless you are a very unlucky GP I can't believe you would have contact with decomposing bodies more than once or twice in an entire career, not several times in a few months like she claims. In any event, her office notes will have records of when she attended such cases or incidents.
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    Well, as I've stated before, I don't know whether she did "it" or not. But I will wait for the evidence and for the prosecution to make its case, which to date, has not happened. Being tried and convicted in the media is not the same thing as being tried in a court of law.

    None of us know more than what we've read unless somebody is holding out here, and until there is conclusive evidence against her or until she pleads guilty, she is innocent until proven guilty -- at least in my eyes.

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    Well we'll agree to differ. I think she's guilty until proven guilty LOL
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    Spoken like a true lawyer!

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