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Thread: Madeleine McCann's death 'covered up by parents who faked kidnap', court hears

  1. #46
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Mr butt had the same immediate reaction. I hope it wasn't them, I really do because I would hate to think anyone would do something that stupid to their own child.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    I agree - it's very similar to Jon Benet Ramsey's case. Jon Benet's parents were innocent and in both cases, the police made serious errors which compromised the investigation and cast unfounded allegations on the parents.
    Patsy did kill JonBenet. It's the only theory that makes a bit of sense. No kidnapper sits around all night writing a 3 page ransom note with a dead kid in the basement and the parents asleep upstairs.

    The DNA evidence on the underwear was from the factory where they were made - highly degraded, nearly untestable. Underwear is still stitched by hands that get pricked a lot.

    The Ramseys paid for the support of a former cop and a media blitz. That does not make them innocent. Patsy freaked out and unintentionally killed her cranky, bed wetting, kid. Does she deserve prison for that? Probably not. I can sympathize with her situation (post-cancer, exhausted, etc.) But I hate liars and manipulators.
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  3. #48
    Silver Member Anne of Cleves's Avatar
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    Patsy Ramsey isn't worried about prison because she passed away back in 2006. I always thought she had something to do with JonBenet's death, but we'll never know now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I think I heard the same thing implied about the Walshes (John Walsh and his then-wife). Also, there was an American case where the abduction of the child centered around the parents' open relationship.
    The Van Dams from San Diego ( I think), and their swinging ways did contribute to the abduction of their daughter. They was partying (sexing?) in a separate area of the home, reserved for that purpose, when their neighbor took the kid. He had been noticing the habits of the family for a long time, waiting for an opportunity, and he got it.

    No, the parents shouldn't be charged with anything but DAMN - when you have kids, take care of them! Why have kids if you want to swing/do drugs/party to unconsciousness?
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    The JonBenet case makes my head spin. I was kind of re-reading the Wiki entry and it looks like opinion by people who investigated the case falls down the middle.

    I lean toward Olivia's opinion because who in the world would write a crazy ransom note like that, and while the child's body was still in the house?

    But Patsy Ramsay killing the child in a fit of rage doesn't seem that strong to me since the child was both struck and garroted. That sounds like something a confirmed predator, who fantasizes about this kind of stuff before acting on it, does.

    Then, again, how did the person get in the house? No way to get in except a faulty window in the basement.

  6. #51
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
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    You should read up at Crime Library about the Jon Benet case. There was a stranger in the house. They just never found out who it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    You should read up at Crime Library about the Jon Benet case. There was a stranger in the house. They just never found out who it was.
    There was no evidence that a stranger was in the house. The basement window wasn't disturbed, cobwebs in place, even though it was broken.

    As for the garrotting of JB, the most morbid theory I read is that Patsy was in so deep (not calling an ambulance, not waking up John, watching her child in convulsions) that she insanely thought that killing JB was a good thing. That's the hardest part to grasp, for me, about the Patsy theory.
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    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gas_chick View Post
    You should read up at Crime Library about the Jon Benet case. There was a stranger in the house. They just never found out who it was.
    Wasn't there a hair on her underwear that they never found out who it belonged to?

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarzy View Post
    Wasn't there a hair on her underwear that they never found out who it belonged to?
    In one of the later statements by the Boulder police department, they seemed to indicate that foreign DNA was found in three different areas of Jon Benet's clothes and that none of it was from the immediate family members.

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    And that is where these cases differ.
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  11. #56
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    I believe the Ramsey's are innocent. The problem lay with Boulder Detective Steven Thomas, who went after the Ramsey's and ignored glaring evidence of their innocence.

    Detective Thomas had never been involved in a murder investigtion prior to JonBenet's death. His background was narcotics and he came into this investigation with no homicide experience.

    Lou Smit is adamant the Ramsey's are innocent and has a huge amount of evidence to support this. Smit had over 30 years experience investigating homicides, including many high profile cases. He worked with the FBI until his retirement, and came out of retirement because he thought there was such a gross miscarriage of justice against the Ramsey family.

    Also, John Douglas (very famous homicide investigator and criminal profiler) also has no doubt that a sexual predator murdered JonBenet.

    There is such a wealth of DNA evidence to clear the Ramsey family (including three separate items of male DNA in JonBenet's underpants that do not belong to a member of the Ramsey family) and the very clear evidence of a break in on the night of her death.

    Also, JonBenet was silenced with a stun gun while she was asleep. There are autopsy photos where it clearly shows the burn marks on her face. Again the work of an intruder.

    As for the handwriting, it was NOT a match to Patsy. Handwriting experts have said that on a scale of 1 to 5, 1 being a perfect match, Patsy's writing scored only a 4. Her score is not even close enough to use as evidence in court.


  12. #57
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    Smit and Douglas both worked for the Ramsey's. They were NOT impartial experts.

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    Jon Benet was killed by an outsider-a sexual predator of the worst kind. The FBI even agrees with that. The house was huge. They were gone for hours that night. Whoever got in had plenty of time to figure out what he would do-just had to wait it out, and he did. He had all the time in the world. We aren't talking about an ordinary house.Children get targeted-who knows how. He already had this planned out.
    My sister,age 5,and I ,age 10 were asleep in the same bed. We were on the second floor. My mother was the last person to go to bed,she had been in the bathtub with that door shut. The bedroom window was partially open. She came out of the bathroom and went towards our room. Looking straight ahead at the window, she saw a man on a ladder raising the window of our room. She screamed and he slid down and ran,leaving the ladder. Only one of us would have been taken. Would my loving parents been accused of murder? I wonder. It was only a matter of luck & timing that we survived. Who would be so bold? A pervert. Some people would have flatly believed my parents had nothing to do with it. We moved within a week.
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    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Smit and Douglas both worked for the Ramsey's. They were NOT impartial experts.
    But these were two of the country's best homicide investigators. If I'd been accused of murdering my child, I'd go with the best too. These were not hokey or dodgy investigators and the results they found caused the FBI to investigate further, and those DNA results were found independent of Smit or Douglas' investigation. Are we supposed to discount their findings, even though they are the most experienced homicide investigators in the country?

    McJag - your story is absolutely horrifying. It literally sent a chill down my spine when I read it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Jon Benet was killed by an outsider-a sexual predator of the worst kind. The FBI even agrees with that. The house was huge. They were gone for hours that night. Whoever got in had plenty of time to figure out what he would do-just had to wait it out, and he did. He had all the time in the world. We aren't talking about an ordinary house.Children get targeted-who knows how. He already had this planned out.
    My sister,age 5,and I ,age 10 were asleep in the same bed. We were on the second floor. My mother was the last person to go to bed,she had been in the bathtub with that door shut. The bedroom window was partially open. She came out of the bathroom and went towards our room. Looking straight ahead at the window, she saw a man on a ladder raising the window of our room. She screamed and he slid down and ran,leaving the ladder. Only one of us would have been taken. Would my loving parents been accused of murder? I wonder. It was only a matter of luck & timing that we survived. Who would be so bold? A pervert. Some people would have flatly believed my parents had nothing to do with it. We moved within a week.

    I suggest everyone should read:

    JonBenet Ramsey Murder, an investigative analysis - Crime Library on truTV.com

    The journalist and investigators who contribute to Crime Library, IMO, do an excellent job of looking at all angles of an investigation. Boulder police were, putting it as nice a possible, completely unskilled/unprofessional and grossly neglectful with their investigation.

    They allowed people, friends of the Ramseys, to walk through the home... BEFORE any real evidence was collected. THAN John found his own daughter:

    "(Boulder POLICE) They did not conduct a proper search of the house, the area was not sealed off and friends were allowed to walk in and out at their leisure. No moves were made to protect any forensic evidence. The scale of their mistakes became apparent later that afternoon when a detective asked Fleet White, a friend of the Ramseys, to take John and search the house for "anything unusual.""

    And he found her... dead. There was an "unknown male DNA" found, but no one ever talks about that. It's in the official report. And after John and his son, JR's brother, were ruled out. And also the retarded case of Karr. IMO, the sheer fact that the Boulder DA and police force JUMPED at some random tip that some pervert was confessing to this murder proves to me that Boulder had no clue about this case. Before DNA could be verified, using the "unknown" partial chart, his alibi/story (his then wife admittedly denied it was even possible), he had virtually NO DETAILS about the case - they charged him and made a huge media blitz over it.

    Honestly, we will NEVER know what happened to JoBenet because BOULDER screwed up. They tunnel visioned her parents... they let the crime scene virtually be destroyed/contaminated, and the blabbed about their BS "evidence" damning the Ramseys... evidence that couldnt even secure a WARRANT.
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