Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 168
Like Tree265Likes

Thread: Leslie Van Houten, Former Manson Family Member, Granted Parole

  1. #91
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Antartica.
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    Yea, I kinda helped with the off topic thing. We should have a serial killers thread.
    Bluebonnet likes this.

  2. #92
    Elite Member OrangeSlice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Studying with Master Grumpy Cat
    Posts
    9,286

    Default

    I don't know much about the topic, but it's fascinating to see the discussion and read the articles posted. Definitely need a serial killer thread.

    "Schadenfreude, hard to spell, easy to feel." ~VenusinFauxFurs

    "Scoffing is one of my main hobbies!" ~Trixie

  3. #93
    Gold Member VeraGemini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    What am I doing in this handbasket?
    Posts
    797

    Default

    Bundy was, and still is, fascinating because he was a textbook sociopath of the type that usually winds up becoming a success in business and/or politics. He was very charismatic, and he did, indeed, have an IQ that tested in the "gifted" range. He was also a sexual sadist, a necrophiliac, a narcissist, and possibly, bipolar. (There's a theory that when he was on a manic/grandiose behavior jag, he killed, instead of going on spending sprees, or gambling, or picking up strangers in a bar. I'm not implying that bipolar = serial killer, but in his case, with his particular pathology, it might have worked that way.) The Florida killings that got him the chair were different from his usual pattern. Bundy was what they call an organized killer. He planned things out, chose his victims carefully, subdued them, took them to a spot where he was unlikely to be disturbed, and then hid the bodies. By the time of the Florida killings he was coming apart. They were disorganized and sloppy, and he left a lot of evidence behind. It was almost like he wanted to be caught, or he'd psychologically decompensated to the point he didn't care. He was smart enough, and knowledgeable enough to know what killing a 12 year old in a strong death penalty state would mean.

    Gary Ridgway wasn't as smart as Bundy, or as charismatic, but in other ways they were pretty similar. (Necrophilia, murky and abusive family backgrounds, ability to maintain semi-normal social and romantic relationships, etc.) Ridgway was organized, too, and he used his bland averageness the same way Bundy used his charm - neither one seemed like a threat until it was too late. His biggest advantage over law enforcement was how well he knew the areas he was hiding the bodies. There's some of his victims that still haven't been found. They finally caught him because they'd learned a few things from the Bundy murders, and preserved evidence until technology had advanced enough to make it useful. (Ridgway was a suspect as early as 1983.)

    Trivia. Ted Bundy hated the very thought of a serial killer that might beat his total so much that he offered to help investigators from his cell in Florida. They interviewed him, but ultimately gained more insight into the mind of Ted Bundy, instead of Gary Ridgway... although he was right about a few things. In the end, Ridgway is "credited" with 52, and Bundy 36.
    stef likes this.


  4. #94
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Antartica.
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    Nobody knows the true number for either. Gary confessed to 71. He may have killed more or less. Tho he clearly wanted to looked like the ultimate serial killer. It made him feel special, since he didn't do anything else in life well.

    I don't think Ted killed many more than 36. I know many think he killed a lot more. But it doesn't add up. He started killing a lot in 74. He became distracted during that time. Focusing more on killing than on his personal and school life. Before 74, he most likely killed a few here and there. Probably not much more than 10. If that.

  5. #95
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hanging with the raisin girls
    Posts
    11,962

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    The four justifications for punishment are rehabilitation, deterrence, protection of the community and retribution. So it's not just about punishment. A death sentence is a pretty extreme way to make an example of someone.
    It is. My point was similar to yours. Death sentence isn't about rehabilitation and it isn't about deterrence. So calling it out for failing at those two things doesn't matter. It is about retribution / revenge and I guess ultimately protection. Severe as it is, that is the purpose.
    if you're so incensed that you can't fly your penis in public take it up with your state, arrange a nude protest, go and be the rosa parks of cocks or something - witchcurlgirl

  6. #96
    Gold Member VeraGemini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    What am I doing in this handbasket?
    Posts
    797

    Default

    Ridgway officially confessed to 48 murders. There are 49 victims on his "confirmed" list, 3 of whom are still unidentified. There are 6 more names on the "classic" Green River victim list that for one reason or another he wasn't charged with, 2 of them he probably didn't kill. And then there are 5 more who fit his general victim profile, and who were last seen in the general area and time frame he was killing women, but their bodies haven't been found, and some of them, it's not entirely clear if they really disappeared or stopped using the alias they're listed as missing under. (That was a problem identifying several of his victims. Almost all of the women in the Green River case were involved in prostitution, used multiple aliases and street names, and many were transient.) The 52 figure comes from the 48 he confessed to, plus the remaining 4 on the "classic" list. I think that's pretty close to his real total.

    When Bundy was asked if 36 victims was accurate, he said "add one digit to that total", but didn't elaborate whether he meant 36, 46, 136. or 361. I believe his total is probably close to 50, because he's a fairly strong suspect in some murders that occurred in the late 60s, while he was on a road trip to New Jersey. But, we'll never know for sure, since preservation of DNA evidence wasn't a thing when he was active. (The science wasn't there yet when Ridgway was at his most active, either, but it was a glimmer on the horizon, so they were more careful about taking and preserving samples.)

    Murderers do lie for attention and notoriety. Sometimes they lie about being serial killers. I'm thinking of Henry Lee Lucas. He claimed over 3000 murders, 213 across the country were "cleared" on his say so, and he was convicted of 11. But, he probably only killed 2 people, his mother and his girlfriend. There's better evidence for Lucas's partner, Ottis Toole being a bona fide serial killer (he's the chief suspect in the murder of Adam Walsh, the son of America's Most Wanted's John Walsh), so one could say Lucas was an accessory to some, but it's telling that he was the only person to have his death sentence commuted in Texas (by George W. Bush even, when he was governor) when it was proven he could not have been in Texas at the time of the murder.


  7. #97
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    32,423

    Default

    Here's the story on the NJ murders that may have been Bundy. Every summer the shore papers will usually run a piece on it.


    '69 Killings Near Parkway Unsolved, But Bundy Is Blamed The Serial Killer Was In The Area That Memorial Day Weekend. His Biographer Is Convinced Of His Guilt.


    SOMERS POINT — In the memories of those who loved them, Susan Davis and Elizabeth Perry are forever 19, as they were that Memorial Day weekend, 1969.

    All that the college pals could have become was ended here 24 years ago by an evil intruder who brutalized and killed them in woods just off the Garden State Parkway.

    The slayings shocked a gentler era when most parents still believed their children were safe on holidays at the seashore. No one ever was arrested or charged.


    But the parents of Elizabeth Perry said in the days leading up to this year's holiday they are at peace because they believe their daughter was avenged when serial killer Ted Bundy was executed in Florida in January 1989.

    "We loved her dearly, but we couldn't bring her back, and we had to go on," her mother, Margaret Perry, said from the couple's home at Mercer Island, Wash. "We are convinced that when Ted Bundy died, our daughter's killer got his comeuppance."

    Bundy biographer Richard Larsen, a close friend of the Perrys', said last week that he is convinced the young women's deaths were the serial killer's ''first adult, planned crimes," and that what followed was "a complete circle from the East Coast to the West Coast, back to the Rocky Mountains and then down to sunny Florida."

    Investigators from the New Jersey State Police have known for more than a decade that Ted Bundy was raised in Philadelphia, that he was attending Temple University in 1969, and that he was, as one put it, "a strong suspect."

    "There was never enough to say for sure that he did it," said Maj. Thomas Kinzer, one of the original detectives on the murders who now commands field operations for the department. "It remains an open investigation."

    Larsen, a former newspaper reporter who exposed many of Bundy's crimes in the Northwest, and author of the book and television movie The Deliberate Stranger, said it no longer had to be.

    Bundy was here. Bundy was a killer. The crime has Bundy's homicidal style resonating all through it.

    And Larsen has a tape on which Bundy talks about killing girls at the Jersey Shore in 1969.
    *
    Larsen believes that when the two young women drove out of Ocean City before dawn on Friday, May 30, 1969, they were heading into a trap laid by a 22-year-old Ted Bundy, who probably had stalked them on the beach and was waiting up the parkway pretending to be hurt to get them to stop.

    Davis, of Camp Hill, Pa., and Perry, whose family then lived in Excelsior, Minn., were schoolmates at all-female Monticello College in Godfrey, Ill. They had finished school May 25 and driven to the Jersey Shore for a three-day holiday, staying at a boarding house.

    They started out early on May 30, planning to travel to Camp Hill and then on to see Davis' brother graduate from Duke University.

    They stopped for breakfast at the Somers Point Diner and were headed up the parkway before 6 a.m.

    A New Jersey state trooper found Davis' powder-blue convertible abandoned alongside the highway in Somers Point about 10 a.m. He had it taken to a private garage in Northfield, where it remained for three days.

    Within eight hours of the young women's departure, Ray Perry, an executive for a paper company, and Wesley Davis, who owned the Davis Beverage Co. in Harrisburg, knew their daughters were missing.

    They reported their fears to police, and the two men rented a helicopter in Ocean City to help in the search.

    By Monday, police realized Davis' car had been impounded and went to the site two miles north of the Somers Point interchange where it had been found.

    About 1:30 p.m., searchers walked 200 feet into the woods and found the bodies buried neatly under piles of leaves.

    The volunteer searcher who made the discovery said he was so upset he lost his voice for a while.

    Susan Davis was nude, and her clothes were in a pile near her. Elizabeth Perry was dressed except for her underwear, which was missing. Each had been stabbed four times in the chest and abdomen.

    Pathologists said too much time had passed for them to say with certainty whether the women had been sexually assaulted.

    The car keys had been tossed a short distance away. The knife used to kill the young women never was found.

    Ray Perry suffered depression over his beloved daughter's death, and his company suggested he transfer for a change of scenery to its operation in Seattle.

    It was the strangest of ironies, Larsen later would say, because Ted Bundy had moved to Washington, as well.

    Apparently, just after Memorial Day 1969, Bundy went west. Larsen believes he made the trip in a car borrowed from a Temple faculty member.

    Larsen was then the chief political writer for the Seattle Times and dealt often with Bundy, who was a worker in Republican political campaigns. Then Bundy went to Utah to attend law school and eventually was caught trying to kidnap a young girl.

    "The bells went off," said Larsen, who knew there had been a series of missing-girl cases in Seattle.

    Larsen and other reporters were able to trace Bundy's credit-card purchases of gasoline and figured out he was around where girls disappeared. The crimes uncovered began to multiply, and Larsen investigated dozens.

    Once, he said, Bundy indicated to him that he had killed more than 100 girls and young women.

    Bundy escaped twice, killed many times more, and was finally caught and convicted in Florida of killing a 12-year-old girl and two sorority sisters at Florida State University.

    He was put on death row in 1979 and stayed there for 10 years.

    Investigator Kinzer said that two New Jersey detectives tried to interview Bundy in 1988 about the Somers Point slayings but that the convict would not discuss the crimes.

    Kinzer said he did find Bundy's aunt in Philadelphia, who told him that her nephew could not have gone to the Jersey Shore that weekend because he had been in an auto accident and had a cast on his leg.

    There was no record of the accident, Kinzer said.

    "Bingo," said Larsen when he learned recently of the leg cast. He said Bundy used a leg cast, an arm cast or crutches or a combination of the three to lure victims in a trio of murders he has studied.

    Kinzer said Bundy was such a loner at Temple that no one even remembered him. "All we had was his records," the investigator said.

    Larsen said Bundy was born in 1946 at a home for unwed mothers in Burlington, Vt. For years, researchers now think, Bundy was raised believing that his mother was his sister and his grandmother was his mother.

    He and his mother stayed with relatives in Philadelphia.

    Almost nothing else is known about him.

    "We didn't get any calls from anybody who knew him," Kinzer said. "I don't think we got one phone call."

    Larsen said Bundy's pattern would have been to scout the woods in Somers Point before he took his victims there. He would have familiarized himself with the terrain.

    In later crimes, he carried a satchel of weapons he might need and handcuffs to restrain his victims.

    But the Somers Point murders would have been his first, Larsen said. He might not have been as organized as he would later be.

    Kinzer said there was an unusual method of restraint used in the New Jersey crimes, a fact he could not discuss, but a technique he had not seen before or since.

    Larsen said he had been told that the technique was that one of the victims was tied to a tree with her hair.

    Larsen said Bundy did not confess to crimes while on death row, but rather discussed issues. He tried to explain that violent pornography was a key to his urges to kill. Many scoffed at his excuses.

    Just before he died, one of his lawyers said that Bundy specifically had denied ever killing anyone in the Philadelphia area.

    Larsen is unconvinced. He said Bundy routinely denied killings where he knew relatives would read about his admissions, and he still had an aunt in Pennsylvania.

    The author has a tape made in October 1986 in which Bundy is discussing with forensic psychiatrist Art Norman his 1969 life in Philadelphia. Bundy said he traveled often to New York to see violent pornography.

    "Talk about being pushed to the edge," Bundy said on the tape.

    Bundy began referring to himself in the third person.

    "So, after being more or less detached from people for a long period . . . didn't have any friends, didn't really go anywhere, just more or less had school and then sort of entertained himself with his pornographic hobby and drove the shore and watched the beach and just saw young women lined up along the beach," he said.

    "You know, it's like an overwhelming kind of vision, eventually found
    himself tearing around that place for a couple of days. And eventually, without really planning anything, he picked up a couple of young girls. And ended up with the first time he had ever done it."

    Larsen said Norman understood that Bundy was talking about murdering someone for the first time.

    Bundy said on the tape that he experienced "the fear of detection and apprehension when you kill someone."

    Ray and Margaret Perry said that before they left Minnesota they established a memorial room at the Minneapolis Humane Society for the daughter they called Ibby.

    "She loved animals," her father said.

    They said, for a while, they were close with the Davis family.

    "We exchanged Christmas cards and kept in touch, and then after a time less so," Ray Perry said.

    He said Wesley Davis was pretty much retired now and spent a good deal of time at a home in Florida.

    The Davis family, when contacted recently, decided not to talk about the loss they have felt for so many Memorial Days.

    The Perrys created a memorial award in their daughter's name at Monticello
    College, and it was awarded for two years, until the school founded in 1835 was closed.

    There is a community college there now. A memorial garden of beautiful flowers was planted on the campus the summer of the deaths of Susan Davis and Elizabeth Perry. A college spokeswoman said last week no one remembers where it used to be.


    '69 Killings Near Parkway Unsolved, But Bundy Is Blamed The Serial Killer Was In The Area That Memorial Day Weekend. His Biographer Is Convinced Of His Guilt. - philly-archives

    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  8. #98
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Antartica.
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    If my memory is right, he didn't start working at the medical supply company until the 70's. How did he get the leg cast? Did he steal it off of someone? It's just one of several murders he's connected to that he probably didn't commit. Lonnie Trumbull in '66. The killer was described as having thinning blond hair. Yea, not Ted. Ted had also not been to Temple yet, so he wasn't using disguises at that point.

    There was a 71 killing in Burlington Vermont. Rita Curran was murdered in a similar fashion to how Ted did it. But there is no proof he was even there at that time. No proof he wasn't either. But it's a stretch.

    Of course there is the Ann Marie Burr stuff. But a lot of that is bullshit. There was a boy who lived 3 houses down that was obsessed with her that failed a lie detector test. One of the officers in the case always believed it was him. He would not publically say that. But at a memorial held in '99 for her, he said he knew the killer was still alive.

  9. #99
    Gold Member VeraGemini's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    What am I doing in this handbasket?
    Posts
    797

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    If my memory is right, he didn't start working at the medical supply company until the 70's. How did he get the leg cast? Did he steal it off of someone?
    All he'd have needed was a sock, gauze from the drugstore, and plaster from a hardware or art supply store. It might not have passed the scrutiny of an orthopedic tech, but it'd be close enough to fool a layperson. I had my leg cast around 1980, and that's pretty much still how they did it in the ER.


  10. #100
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    32,423

    Default

    yes, plaster of paris can be purchased in thousands of stores. bundy didn't need to work at a medical supply place.

    BTW, Bundy had a daughter while he was in jail. she's out there somewhere, poor kid.
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  11. #101
    Elite Member gas_chick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    34,479

    Default

    Yep that might be worse than being Manson's kid.
    czb and C_is_for_Cookie like this.
    I am going to come and burn the fucking house down... but you will blow me first."

  12. #102
    Elite Member SHELLEE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Florida Keys
    Posts
    17,986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I can barely even believe we are talking about the viability of Bundy somehow avoiding the death penalty. Even the fictional Hannibal Lecter doesn't do justice to Bundy's diabolical, depraved genius at committing mayhem and eluding justice. He should have been executed by rolling over him with a steam roller going 1/8 of a mile an hour, feet first.
    Like in Austin Powers

    See, Whores, we are good for something. Love, Florida
    #fingersinthebootyassbitch

  13. #103
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    24,289

    Default

    Speaking of this, I just saw on FaceBook that someone found out that Karla Homolka lives in their area and is getting the pitchfork brigade together - to drive her out, I guess. Homolka has a young child and doing anything against the Homolka would victimize the innocent kid, too. And man, how do you break it to your kid that you were Karla Homolka???

  14. #104
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Burning Down Your Windmill
    Posts
    48,612

    Default

    Hmmm, that's a tough one. I wouldn't want that evil living in my hood either. FFS, she gave her own baby sister to that monster to rape.
    gas_chick likes this.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

  15. #105
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Antartica.
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    1
    Quote Originally Posted by VeraGemini View Post
    All he'd have needed was a sock, gauze from the drugstore, and plaster from a hardware or art supply store. It might not have passed the scrutiny of an orthopedic tech, but it'd be close enough to fool a layperson. I had my leg cast around 1980, and that's pretty much still how they did it in the ER.
    I think he was bullshitting. His third person confessions weren't always the truth.

    He said that he was in his prime, or predator phase by the Healy abduction. Before that he was impulsive. That wouldn't be impulsive. I see that as something that needed to be planned out due to it being in an area he had never been in before those few days he claimed to be there. Also, the stabbing is off of his MO. He only used a knife once. And that was on Kim Leach. Him going off his MO seems to be with young ones like Leach and Culver. He drowned Culver.

    It's possible that he committed those murders, since he was in the area at the time. But it is also a possibility he was lying his ass off for kicks.

Page 7 of 12 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: April 20th, 2015, 06:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •