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Thread: Leslie Van Houten, Former Manson Family Member, Granted Parole

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    It was almost as if he wanted to get caught and be put to death
    That was a theory. That he wanted a high profile trail, then an execution. I don't buy that. Atleast not the execution part.
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    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    His lawyer Jim Coleman told him that confessing to more crimes would prejudice the courts against him. He said that his job was to keep his client alive and he wanted to do something that would make that impossible.

    He lost one of his last appeals, which was based on the jury instructions during the Kimberly Leach trial 5 to 4.

    It's impossible to know for sure, but his confessions may have swayed that vote.
    What difference would it make? He had two other death sentences for the Chi Omega murders, Florida was going to execute him one way or another. He had exhausted all his appeals and then he tried to delay the execution by offering to talk. I'm sure that other State investigators would have liked to find out where the bodies were buried so they could close out some open cases, but the FL governor wasn't having it. And Bundy was known for playing games so who knows if he would have offered anything useful anyway. He sure as hell wasn't going to say anything unless it benefited him/bought him some time.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I can barely even believe we are talking about the viability of Bundy somehow avoiding the death penalty. Even the fictional Hannibal Lecter doesn't do justice to Bundy's diabolical, depraved genius at committing mayhem and eluding justice. He should have been executed by rolling over him with a steam roller going 1/8 of a mile an hour, feet first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    What difference would it make? He had two other death sentences for the Chi Omega murders, Florida was going to execute him one way or another. He had exhausted all his appeals and then he tried to delay the execution by offering to talk. I'm sure that other State investigators would have liked to find out where the bodies were buried so they could close out some open cases, but the FL governor wasn't having it. And Bundy was known for playing games so who knows if he would have offered anything useful anyway. He sure as hell wasn't going to say anything unless it benefited him/bought him some time.
    Not to nit pick. But the Chi Omega Murders were for only one death sentence. The Leach one was more clear cut. The other nearly had him receive a life sentence due to the 6-6 tie and a lot of other stuff. Like one of the witnesses only remembering him due to the use of hypnotist. It was a lot of crazy shit with the first trial. With the Leach one, had he won an appeal, he would've most likely received a new round of appeals on that case.

    He also probably didn't have many more murders to actually admit to.

    I know there are many that think he killed a 100 people. But that just isn't logical. He most likely confessed to most of the murders he committed. The bones for time scheme was doomed to fail from the start. Since it only strengthen the resolve of everyone to see him die.

    I think people give Ted too many credit for being smart. He was clever, but that was about it.

    Being clever doesn't keep you out of old sparky. Taking a plea deal does tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I can barely even believe we are talking about the viability of Bundy somehow avoiding the death penalty. Even the fictional Hannibal Lecter doesn't do justice to Bundy's diabolical, depraved genius at committing mayhem and eluding justice. He should have been executed by rolling over him with a steam roller going 1/8 of a mile an hour, feet first.
    Double post.

    Ted wasn't a diabolical genius.

    Ted was an average student and dropped out of law school. His intelligence was mostly on the surface. Just like his charm and empathy. It was all an act.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Ted was smart enough to act as his own attorney and nearly get himself off in his Colorado trial.
    Ted wasn't a diabolical genius.

    Ted was an average student and dropped out of law school. His intelligence was mostly on the surface. Just like his charm and empathy. It was all an act.
    Oh, yes, he was. Hoarded money given to him by visitors. Sawed through the top of his cell in Colorado. Spent weeks investigating where the crawlspace went. Escaped by dropping down into the jailer's office when the jailer was out. Put on the jailer's clothes and walked out the door of the prison. He was Hannibal Lecter to the Macgyver power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Ted was smart enough to act as his own attorney and nearly get himself off in his Colorado trial.
    The evidence in the Campbell trial was pretty bad.

    Also, how did his lawyering work in Utah?


    Oh, yes, he was. Hoarded money given to him by visitors. Sawed through the top of his cell in Colorado. Spent weeks investigating where the crawlspace went. Escaped by dropping down into the jailer's office when the jailer was out. Put on the jailer's clothes and walked out the door of the prison.
    The issue around the light fixture was already there. Also, the guards didn't even check hourly all night in the cells. It was like Mayberry.

    Is Gary Ridgeway, "The Green River Killer" also a diabolical genius?

    He put acid on his arms to hide scratches. Also put fish and bottles around bodies to throw cops off. Do you think he was super smart?

    He also put rocks in the hookers vaginas because he didn't want anyone else to have sex with them.

    Ed Kemper. Now he's smart. He shot some women. Then later removed the bullets so it couldn't be traced to him.

    He was Hannibal Lecter to the Macgyver power.
    That's a pretty dayum good quote. haha

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    Ridgway stayed free while murdering at least 50, after being named a suspect. If that's not both diabolical and a form of genius I'm not sure what is.

    There's all kinds of genius. There's also a certain type of animal intelligence and cunning that major serial killers seem to have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joebob View Post
    I think people give Ted too many credit for being smart. He was clever, but that was about it.
    I agree with you there. And by the time he hit Florida he was really unraveling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Ted was smart enough to act as his own attorney and nearly get himself off in his Colorado trial.

    Oh, yes, he was. Hoarded money given to him by visitors. Sawed through the top of his cell in Colorado. Spent weeks investigating where the crawlspace went. Escaped by dropping down into the jailer's office when the jailer was out. Put on the jailer's clothes and walked out the door of the prison. He was Hannibal Lecter to the Macgyver power.
    Smarter than the average criminal? Sure, but I think maybe it's less of a credit to him than a slam on the authorities who underestimated him, and their flawed security. When he escaped the first time, he had no plan and wandered around in circles in the woods for days. Once they knew they had an escape risk on their hands, they should have beefed up security, but they didn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    Once they knew they had an escape risk on their hands, they should have beefed up security, but they didn't.
    Insanity. The fucking incompetence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Ridgway stayed free while murdering at least 50, after being named a suspect. If that's not both diabolical and a form of genius I'm not sure what is.

    There's all kinds of genius. There's also a certain type of animal intelligence and cunning that major serial killers seem to have.
    He was a suspect simply because he liked to fuck hookers. They had nothing else on him other than that, and his truck. But they still couldn't get him till years later. Had he killed the women Ted killed, he would've been caught 2 murders in. His IQ is in the mid 80's.

    The only time Ted appeared to be that smart was with the Linda Ann Healy murder. That was some American Psycho shit. Other than that, he used obviously things. Plus his lucky ability to change his face and peoples inability to guess the proper color of his car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    I agree with you there. And by the time he hit Florida he was really unraveling.



    Smarter than the average criminal? Sure, but I think maybe it's less of a credit to him than a slam on the authorities who underestimated him, and their flawed security. When he escaped the first time, he had no plan and wandered around in circles in the woods for days. Once they knew they had an escape risk on their hands, they should have beefed up security, but they didn't.
    WAY smarter than the average criminal. He had been accepted into and attended law school, which probably puts him in the top 1% of convicted murders on that basis alone.

    In addition to the two escapes he engineered in Colorado, he almost escaped from the last prison they had him in Florida - in 1984, he had sawed through one of his bars and then glued it back temporarily with an adhesive he made .

    There is also this paragraph from the extensively footnoted Wikipedia entry on him:

    Bundy was an unusually organized and calculating criminal who used his extensive knowledge of law enforcement methodologies to elude identification and capture for years.[272] His crime scenes were distributed over large geographic areas; his victim count had risen to at least 20 before it became clear that numerous investigators in widely disparate jurisdictions were hunting the same man.[273] His assault methods of choice were blunt trauma and strangulation, two relatively silent techniques that could be accomplished with common household items.[274] He deliberately avoided firearms due to the noise they made and the ballistic evidence they left behind.[275] He was a "meticulous researcher" who explored his surroundings in minute detail, looking for safe sites to seize and dispose of victims.[276] He was unusually skilled at minimizing physical evidence.[65] His fingerprints were never found at a crime scene, nor was any other incontrovertible evidence of his guilt, a fact he repeated often during the years in which he attempted to maintain his innocence.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    There's also genius in Bundy's ability to interact with and lure all those women. They weren't down and outs, and he presented himself in a way that worked to lure them over and over. The ability to mask himself. Genius in it's way.
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    My issue with his super intelligence is with how he acted from the time he got pulled over in Utah till the moment he died.

    He gave the cop a terrible alibi. He told the cop he saw a movie that was already out of the theaters. Then proceeded to let the cop search his car without a warrant. Knowing full well he had his murder kit in the car. He was easily tricked into basically letting authorities know he was "Ted".

    He let them search his place where they found the Colorado guide and a brochure to the school play that connected him to Debbie Kent. He was relatively smart. But he thought of himself as being super smart, when he really wasn't.

    He never fooled the cops once he was arrested.

    He left a trail in Florida that connected him to Lake City and Tallahassee.

    Then there was the trial. Besides not taking the plea deal. He acted like a jackass during the Chi Omega trail. He threw fits and acted guilty as fuck when he asked the cop to describe the murder scene.

    That motherfucker was crazy as hell, yet was more concerned about how he looked publically than he did the importance of his trial. Plea deals, insanity claims. Nope, not for ole Teddy boy.

    He didn't even want to divulge that he fucked the corpses on the Keppel confession tapes. Most likely for fear of looking bad. As if he couldn't look any worse.

    It could've been revealed that he created cancer and he couldn't have looked worse.

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