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Thread: JonBenet Ramsey's brother gives his first-ever interview with Dr. Phil

  1. #106
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    What surprises me is that the DNA from this case has not popped again. Do you police forces share this data inter-state (federally?) or are they only looking in the state where this occurred?
    It would only get a hit on a database like CODIS if the person was picked up for another crime and a DNA swab was taken. People die, leave the country, some (in rare cases) are able to live off the memories of what they did and never act on their impulses again, while others get smarter about modern forensics and work at perfecting their technique so that they can minimise their chances of being caught. Another factor is the massive backlog of untested sexual assault kits. There are thought to be at least 200,000 untested kits in the USA. A match could be lying untested in a storage facility or it may even have been destroyed, either because the material has been classed as degraded or because it had been held for 6 months without being processed (this varies from state to state and is dependent on local police policy).
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  2. #107
    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it probably was the brother, it's true that it's the theory that makes the most sense, even though there isn't enough evidence to prosecute him for it.
    but honestly, even if it was the brother, who cares? he was 9 at the time anyway so it's not like he would have been tried as an adult anyway, and when dealing with a 9 year-old, there was probably a better chance at rehabilitation and therapy if it was all dealt with privately rather than having a big trial and having the kid publicly branded a murderer. what good would that do? how would putting a 9 year-old in jail or branding him a murderer for the rest of his life, be justice? so yeah, if it was the brother, i can totally understand the parents covering it up because it's bad enough to lose one child, they didn't want to lose their son too.

    either way, i never understood the fascination with this little girl's murder.
    You and me both...it gives me a freaking headache. I agree the Burke theory is plausible, but then so is the discipline gone awry, an accident covered up to look like a botched kidnapping/murder, a crazed intruder who left no evidence of how they got in or out of the house, that bizarre ransom note...who the hell knows. Whatever it was, it was a really disorganized crime, too bad the police were even more disorganized and there's just too much conflicting evidence to ever sort it out. Well, for me anyway.
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  3. #108
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I admit that the ransom note is one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Plus, the money demanded matching John's bonus.

    One theory that I think is more plausible is that the murderer is someone close to the Ramsey's (but not Burke) and that they are protecting the person for some really twisted reason.
    I just learned this from the CBS show (I think, unless I forgot it over the years) that the ransom note also had the place where John was stationed in the military, which only a few people would have known.

    I cannot fathom anyone other than another child that they'd be covering up for, just personally, as a parent myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Hour View Post
    The ransom note quoted Dirty Harry and Speed, which I find so totally bizarre outside of the fact note as a whole is bizarre.
    Again, the CBS series (!) also showed how there were movie posters on the walls in the basement. I *think* one of them was Speed. They also said 76% of that ransom note was extraneous words.

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    it probably was the brother, it's true that it's the theory that makes the most sense, even though there isn't enough evidence to prosecute him for it.
    but honestly, even if it was the brother, who cares? he was 9 at the time anyway so it's not like he would have been tried as an adult anyway, and when dealing with a 9 year-old, there was probably a better chance at rehabilitation and therapy if it was all dealt with privately rather than having a big trial and having the kid publicly branded a murderer. what good would that do? how would putting a 9 year-old in jail or branding him a murderer for the rest of his life, be justice? so yeah, if it was the brother, i can totally understand the parents covering it up because it's bad enough to lose one child, they didn't want to lose their son too.

    either way, i never understood the fascination with this little girl's murder.
    I would never expect Burke to be prosecuted, then or now. It's John and Patsy that I have issue with. I believe they covered it up and lied throughout the investigation. It's appalling, given that it was their own daughter, that they did so much to cover it up, IMO.
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    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevan View Post
    I cannot fathom anyone other than another child that they'd be covering up for, just personally, as a parent myself.
    Or each other.
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  5. #110
    Elite Member o0Amber0o's Avatar
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    I haven't watched the CBS doc but do intend to at some point - but I wanted to come in just to share something that I learned recently from a Future Learn class (Forensic Psychology) that I'm currently participating in regards to blood/DNA/scientific evidence.

    So the following Miscarriages of Justice (things that can lead to an individual being wrongly convicted) as ranked are as follows:

    1. eyewitness misidentification
    2. forensic blood analysis
    3. police misconduct
    4. defective/fraudulent science
    5. false confessions
    6. false witness testimony
    7. informants
    8. DNA inclusions

    Forensic science can be linked to 23% of wrongful convictions and the course cited the already spoken of incident where a factory workers DNA had contaminated the cotton swabs.

    I guess my point would be that with all of the mishandling of this case and the evidence involved, I just think there is very little VALID evidence and that'd be my guess as to why the DA never tried to go for a conviction, there just wasn't enough.

    As far as the sexual trauma theory goes, someone on another forum I visit suggested that perhaps JB was one of those kids that couldn't keep their hands out of their pants. It's certinately something I've dealt with during my childcare days and I think could be possible.

    I'm not 100% convinced Burke committed the crime, but I definitely believe the Ramseys know who did (although I'm not sure that is information they would've ever shared with Burke).
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  6. #111
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevan View Post
    I cannot fathom anyone other than another child that they'd be covering up for, just personally, as a parent myself.
    That's just the thing that I don't buy. That you would find your child unconscious or half dead, and then "finish the job" to cover up for the sibling. Makes no sense whatsoever. The first instinct is to call 911 and try to have them save the child.

  7. #112
    czb
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    ok - i don't know as much about this case as most of you do. but i did see a few minutes of the dr phil interview with the son, and he is a creeper.

    anyhoo, i was just reading a position paper by terry speed on the certainty of DNA testing. for those of you who don't know, he's a brilliant statistician on faculty at Cal, and he's given expert testimony (including the OJ case) in which he disputes the certainty of DNA testing at removing doubt from specific cases. not sure if he has weighed in about the jonbenet case, but his point is that he finds fault with match probabilities.
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  8. #113
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Any of Jon Benet's DNA/blood/hair/tissue ever found on the flashlight that she was supposedly struck with?

  9. #114
    Elite Member Charmed Hour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Any of Jon Benet's DNA/blood/hair/tissue ever found on the flashlight that she was supposedly struck with?
    Nope, it was totally clean- no prints, skin cells (or DNA of any kind). Someone wiped it down and well. Which is strange considering it wouldn't be odd for any of the Ramsey's prints or DNA to be on the flashlight since it belonged to them.
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  10. #115
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Hour View Post
    Nope, it was totally clean- no prints, skin cells (or DNA of any kind). Someone wiped it down and well. Which is strange considering it wouldn't be odd for any of the Ramsey's prints or DNA to be on the flashlight since it belonged to them.
    Also, flashlights have a lot of crevices in them that amateurs like the Ramsey's would typically neglect to clean, and would light up like a Christmas tree on exposure to luminol.

  11. #116
    Elite Member panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Okay, there are articles on this issue Coombes brought up. Here is my take on this:

    1. The articles say that while Coombes worked briefly for the Boulder police department (2008-2011), he did not work directly on the case. Which makes me suspicious of his direct knowledge about the handling of DNA evidence.
    2. The DNA Coombes is referring to is the touch DNA from the outside of the long johns. Not the DNA found inside the underwear and under the fingernails. This means that Coombes is not able to dismiss the DNA testing and results on these items.
    3. The Boulder police department did not do the touch DNA testing. Bode Technology Group in Lorton, Virginia did the testing. If less markers were used in the testing, which would be highly unusual because touch testing by definition uses 13 markers, it would not have been the DA's decision, but the decision of a lab far away.
    4. Whatever the number of markers used, they didn't match the DNA of any of the Ramsey's either. So, while Coombes statement (assuming it is credible in the first place) puts the idea of a profile match from all sample areas in doubt, it does not refute the statement by the DA that all DNA collected from Benet's body excluded the Ramsey's as the people who left the DNA.
    Dr. Spitz and Dr. Lee, not in the same doc as Coombes, both agree the DNA has no forensic value. They think it's not a true piece of evidence to link somebody or exonerate somebody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    All that proves is that there were some seriously disturbed people living in that house and given the sexual abuse. Hardly surprising.
    It's also possible that Burke was also sexually or otherwise abused.
    Dr. Lee and Dr. Spitz agree there was no sexual assault there. They said the findings were not indicative of a sexual assault and it wasn't a sexually motivated crime.
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  12. #117
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by panic View Post
    Dr. Spitz and Dr. Lee, not in the same doc as Coombes, both agree the DNA has no forensic value. They think it's not a true piece of evidence to link somebody or exonerate somebody.
    Can you provide both their quotes? DNA is used all day, every day, to exonerate or convict people.

  13. #118
    fgg
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    is it possible to put someone on ignore in just one thread? J/K!
    can't post pics because my computer's broken and i'm stupid

  14. #119
    Elite Member Nevan's Avatar
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    I believe it's in the 2nd episode. I don't have their exact quotes though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgg View Post
    is it possible to put someone on ignore in just one thread? J/K!
    I've tried, FGG, and I still keep seeing my own messages.
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