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Thread: Indian woman fights off drunk sex attacker, single-handedly drags to police station

  1. #16
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Definitely agree that there are wrongful convictions for murder in general.

    Most acid attack victims, however, know who their attacker was because they had recently had an interaction with their attacker -- they had previously rejected an advance from the attacker, and the acid attack is a common method of getting even with someone who has rejected them. I wouldn't compare this to murders in general.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Still don't believe in it. The simple fact is that even if they apply it the rich will not have it imposed on them and the poor will. There is no justice in that, especially in a country like India where the wealthy can buy their way out of everything.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    There is always justice in putting to death a guy who burns off a woman's face because he feels like he's entitled to. I don't care if he's rich or poor or working class or untouchable.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    But the rich won't. Thats the point. The well connected won't.

    Thats one of the ugly truths about capital punishment, how it gets applied. It doesn't matter if you don't care if he's rich or poor, the system does.



    Again, in the interest of full disclosure- I support harsh penalties for horrible crimes, but not death by the state.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; March 22nd, 2015 at 08:54 AM.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    There is no economic circumstance that obviates the evil of throwing caustic materials in someone else's face. They can work on making sure the rich people who do it get their just desserts as a long-term goal.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I'm sure they'll get right on that.



    There's an argument to be made that only death should require a death in exchange, even among death penalty supporters, but this is a part of the world where drug crimes are also capital offenses, so their justice systems are pretty fucked anyway.

    I'm curious- Is it just caustic chemicals that is the crime? Or the resulting disfigurement? ike, if a person gets slashed in the face and is disfigured can the perp get a pass on the DP? Because I'm thinking it would have to apply there as well.



    And in today's death penalty news- this is not from the Onion:
    ‘Death Penalty For Gays’ Ballot Initiative May Be Allowed To Proceed Under California Law

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...shment-sodomy/
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; March 22nd, 2015 at 09:40 AM.
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    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Jfc
    KILLING ME WON'T BRING BACK YOUR GOD DAMNED HONEY!!!!!!!!!!

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  8. #23
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I'm sure they'll get right on that.

    There's an argument to be made that only death should require a death in exchange, even among death penalty supporters, but this is a part of the world where drug crimes are also capital offenses, so their justice systems are pretty fucked anyway.

    I'm curious- Is it just caustic chemicals that is the crime? Or the resulting disfigurement? ike, if a person gets slashed in the face and is disfigured can the perp get a pass on the DP? Because I'm thinking it would have to apply there as well.
    Caustic chemicals are by far the most common method for attempting to disfigure the other person. Partly because they are cheap, and using them in an attack requires no more effort than casually flinging it at the other person.

    Attacking women this way is not just a horrific assault. It's a terroristic act -- it makes an entire class of people feel unsafe/unprotected.

  9. #24
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    The problem with capital punishment for crimes that don't involve a victim's death is that there is absolutely no incentive be to leave a potential witness alive. I'd rather be disfigured than dead.
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  10. #25
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    The problem with capital punishment for crimes that don't involve a victim's death is that there is absolutely no incentive be to leave a potential witness alive. I'd rather be disfigured than dead.
    The point of the disfigurement, though, is to leave them alive, but punish them for rejecting the guy by making them someone who is now unappealing to everyone. A lot of the victims have stated that they wished they were dead. 25% of them are eventually abandoned by their husbands (vs. something like 5% of disfigured husbands who are abandoned by their wives). Ones who weren't married in the first place have virtually no chance of finding a spouse afterward. Employment prospects are horrible. Inability to go out in public. Not supported by police. And even their own families often blame them for their situation.

  11. #26
    A*O
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    I've softened my stance on capital punishment over the years, not least because it clearly doesn't act as a deterrent. However, I despair at the soft sentencing that allows dangerous maniacs back on the streets way too soon, often to reoffend. There have been a number of brutal, random rapes/murders in Melbourne recently carried out by men who are well known to the police and either out on bail or parole with horrific criminal histories. Life in prison seldom actually means life here and some of these monsters spend only a fraction of their sentence locked up and away from more potential victims.
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  12. #27
    Bronze Member Bunraku's Avatar
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    Ajay Aggarwal / Hindustan Times / Getty ImagesWomen shout slogans outside the District court in Saket as they call for the death penalty of the four men convicted of rape and murder on September 13, 2013 in New Delhi, India

    Since the gang rape of a 23-year-old student on a moving bus in New Delhi last year, India has become the world’s rape capital. An American website recently satirized the problem by joking about an upcoming rape festival in the country. You can call it a reflection of the way the world thinks of India or you can call it bad taste (depending on which part of the world you are in) — but you know the image of India as rape hell has stuck when most readers of the article failed to realize that it was satire. Rape is a serious problem all over the world. So why does it seem so much worse in India?
    1. More rapes are being reported now: Along with the modernization of society, more Indian women are being educated and are going out to work. They are breaking out of the subservient mold that society had given to them and are more independent. While this means they are more likely to be sexually abused, it also means they are more likely — compared with women of a previous generation — to report rapes and confront sexual predators. In the three months after the Delhi gang rape, the number of rapes reported in the city more than doubled to 359, from the 143 reported in January-March of 2012. This doesn’t necessarily mean more rapes are happening now, just that more women are emboldened to come out and report.
    2. India actually has a high conviction rate for rape: According to the Guardian, just 7% of reported rapes in the U.K. resulted in convictions during 2011-12. In Sweden, the conviction rate is as low as 10%. France had a conviction rate of 25% in 2006. Poor India, a developing nation with countless challenges, managed an impressive 24.2% conviction rate in 2012. That’s thanks to the efforts of a lot of good people — police, lawyers, victims and their families — working heroically with limited resources.
    3. The media report everything: According to Dave Prager, the American author of Delirious Delhi, crimes that “wouldn’t garner even a sentence in an American paper because so many bigger crimes would elbow it out of the way” are obsessively reported in Indian news publications. Post the Delhi gang rape, Indian media have faithfully recorded each and every rape case, highlighted them for the world and continue to do so.
    4. Most Indians, men and women, hate the reputation that rapists have given their country: No country in the world can claim to have witnessed protests against rape on the scale of India’s, where people turned out in the tens of thousands to voice their shock and sadness. It was people power that forced the government to change existing rape laws and drew the world’s attention to the problem. What happens in other countries? This may not be a typical example, but the rape of a teen girl by high school football players in the Steubenville, Ohio had many in the town sympathizing with the rapists and not the victim.

    Rape In India: Why It Seems Worse | TIME.com

    Do you people believe in this article?

  13. #28
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    I've softened my stance on capital punishment over the years, not least because it clearly doesn't act as a deterrent.
    It has a 100% success rate in the first component listed below:

    "The concept of deterrence has two key assumptions: the first is that specific punishments imposed on offenders will "deter" or prevent them from committing further crimes; the second is that fear of punishment will prevent others from committing similar crimes."

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    It would probably make a difference if those sentenced to death didn't then spend years and years on death row awaiting their fate while lawyers earn $$$ coming up with endless appeals on technicalities. If you know you'll be marched from court after being found guilty of a capital offence and shot on the spot with no chance of appeal (eg China) it might make offenders think twice.
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  15. #30
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Caustic chemicals are by far the most common method for attempting to disfigure the other person. Partly because they are cheap, and using them in an attack requires no more effort than casually flinging it at the other person.

    Attacking women this way is not just a horrific assault. It's a terroristic act -- it makes an entire class of people feel unsafe/unprotected.
    Women feel unsafe as a general rule. We spend our lives that way. Any woman that's ever been alone in an underground carpark or walked a dark street at night and heard footsteps knows that. Being in an area that has capital punishment does nothing to alleviate that feeling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    The point of the disfigurement, though, is to leave them alive, but punish them for rejecting the guy by making them someone who is now unappealing to everyone. A lot of the victims have stated that they wished they were dead. 25% of them are eventually abandoned by their husbands (vs. something like 5% of disfigured husbands who are abandoned by their wives). Ones who weren't married in the first place have virtually no chance of finding a spouse afterward. Employment prospects are horrible. Inability to go out in public. Not supported by police. And even their own families often blame them for their situation.
    And of course, killing the perp would make those 25% of husbands stick around, find husbands for those who aren't married, and stop the blaming by families.


    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    It has a 100% success rate in the first component listed below:
    "The concept of deterrence has two key assumptions: the first is that specific punishments imposed on offenders will "deter" or prevent them from committing further crimes; the second is that fear of punishment will prevent others from committing similar crimes."
    A life in solitary would accomplish the same thing. And since it's really vengeance not justice that DP supporters want, isn't it more brutal to sentence them to that, which is much harsher than death.

    I don't get the logic of retributional sentences for crimes, e.g. death for death. Rapists are not punished by sexual assault, and people guilty of assault are not cceremonially beaten up.
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