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Thread: Gentle innocent or brutal killer: Seattle student charged with murder in Italy

  1. #121
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Oct 2005


    If anything, I think she may have walked in on the murder or the aftermath, panicked, and been too terrified to do anything to help her roommate. Maybe she fled back to Sollecito's, and he instructed her not to call the police, at which point they both turned off their phones until they could figure out what to do in the morning.

    The bizarre behavior, inconsistent timeline, and conflicting alibis could all be explained by her lying about what she actually saw or trying to cover it up out of fear of being accused.

    I can believe that she knows more than she is saying, and even that she may have seen Meredith bleeding to death and in a moment of utter panic, failed to take appropriate action, but I don't believe that she actively participated in the murder or sexual assault.

  2. #122
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    I don't know what to believe, but you can bet a normal person who got caught up in something like that wouldn't be seen having a great time shortly afterwards in a sex shop with her boyfriend.
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  3. #123
    Silver Member Jana's Avatar
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    Canada, eh!


    Or cartwheeling in the police station.

  4. #124
    Elite Member WhateverLolaWants's Avatar
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    Sep 2007


    So this case is all over the news this morning because another inmate has claimed that the boyfriend told him in private that they didn't kill the victim.

    I'm not sure why this changes anything(?)

    – Sat Jun 18, 12:16 pm ET
    PERUGIA, Italy (AFP) – A man jailed with a co-defendant of Amanda Knox, an American convicted for the murder of a British student in Italy, told an appeal hearing on Saturday that she and her boyfriend are innocent.
    Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, her boyfriend at the time, were sentenced to 26 and 25 years in prison for the grisly 2007 murder of south London student Meredith Kercher, with whom Knox shared a house in Perugia.
    Both are now appealing their convictions.
    Prosecutors have said the crime was a drug-fuelled sex game that turned violent.
    Rudy Guede, who was sentenced to 16 years in prison in a separate trial for his role in the murder, allegedly told prison inmate Mario Alessi that "Amanda and Raffaele have nothing to do with the murder".
    Alessi repeated his allegation, already made in a deposition to the police, during Saturday's hearing in this central Italian city.
    Alessi, a mason who is serving time for killing a child, told the court Guede had spoken to him about his friends' trial at the gym at a time when they were both detained in the same prison cell.
    According to Guede's alleged statements, 21-year-old Kercher was killed by a friend of Guede's when she resisted a sexual assault.
    "Rudy told me he tried to help the young woman after her friend wounded her with a small knife with an ivory-coloured grip," Alessi told the court.
    The friend then allegedly told Guede: "What are you doing? We have to kill her if not we'll end up in prison because of her."
    When questioned by Perugia prosecutors Guede denied ever having made such statements.
    The young lovers were originally convicted in large part because of traces of Knox's DNA found on the knife and Sollecito's DNA on a bra clip.
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  5. #125
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Oct 2005


    Guede is a thug and it's obvious by looking at the evidence that he was the one responsible for this. Unfortunately, this trial is no longer about doing justice. It is about saving Mignini the embarrassment of having to admit his early attempts at railroading Amanda and her boyfriend and spinning a laughable story about Satanic motives and wild, violent threesomes were false. Instead of simply admitting they have found the person who did this and it wasn't Amanda, he adjusted his story to just tack Guede onto the ridiculous scenario he'd already sold to the press.

    I do think it's highly likely that she knows more than she's saying, and also that she may have initially lied because she was worried about the police finding out about her drug use and being implicated, but I maintain that she was not an active participant in the murder.

  6. #126
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    It think that is just about right, SB. I agree with your angle on this case.
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  7. #127
    Gold Member gardenwitch's Avatar
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    Prosecutors seek life sentence for Knox

    PERUGIA, Italy (AP) Italian prosecutors asked an appeals court on Saturday to uphold the conviction of Amanda Knox for the murder of her British roommate and increase her sentence to life in prison.
    The 24-year-old American sat motionless as Prosecutor Giancarlo Costagliola made his request. The prosecutor sought the same sentence for Knox's co-defendant, former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, capping two days of closing arguments by the prosecutors.
    Costagliola also requested six months of daytime solitary confinement for Knox and two months for Sollecito.
    A verdict is expected in early October.
    Knox, of Seattle, Washington, and Sollecito, an Italian, were convicted by a lower court of sexually assaulting and murdering Meredith Kercher while they were all studying in Perugia in 2007. Knox was sentenced to 26 years, her co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito to 25 years.
    They both deny wrongdoing and have appealed the 2009 verdict.
    But in Italy prosecutors also can appeal, and they did so in this case. The prosecutors had sought life imprisonment, Italy's harshest punishment, in the original trial, too.
    For two days, prosecutors sought to persuade the appeals court that there is sound evidence incriminating the defendants: witness testimony, genetic material, cell phone activity.
    Manuela Comodi, summing up the case Saturday, said there is "gigantic, rock-solid circumstantial evidence." The prosecutors believe the defendants deserve the harshest possible punishment because of the brutal nature of the murder, the sexual assault, and the lack of a motive.
    "They have killed for nothing," she said.
    Kercher was stabbed to death in the apartment she shared with Knox, in what prosecutor said was a drug-fueled sexual aggression.
    Curt Knox, the defendant's father, said her daughter had reacted well to the prosecutors' request, which had been expected.
    "She was actually fine. She said today was easier than yesterday, mainly because today was technical," he said. "Yesterday it was kind of character assassination that they tried."
    Earlier Saturday, Comodi defended the forensic evidence that had been used to convict Knox, firing back at an independent review that criticized the investigation and the work of police in the case.
    The DNA is crucial in the case, where no clear motive for the brutal killing has emerged.
    Prosecutors maintain that Knox's DNA was found on the handle of a kitchen knife believed to be the murder weapon, and that Kercher's DNA was found on the blade. They said Sollecito's DNA was on the clasp of Kercher's bra as part of a mix of evidence that also included the victim's genetic profile.
    But those findings were always disputed by the defense, and during the appeals trial the court decided to appoint two independent experts to review the evidence.
    The independent experts challenged the prosecution's findings. They said police had made glaring errors in evidence-collecting and that below-standard testing and possible contamination raised doubts over the attribution of DNA traces, both on the blade and on the bra clasp, which was collected from the crime scene several weeks after the murder.
    The review significantly weakened the prosecution case, giving Knox and her supporters hope that she might be freed after four years behind bars.
    Sensing dangers, prosecutors have fought hard to try to undermine the review's results. They described it as superficial and sketchy. In several hearings in past weeks, and then again during summations Friday and Saturday, the prosecutors challenged the review point by point.
    Comodi used down-to-earth expressions, simple language and even food analogies to keep the jurors engaged during the highly technical discussion about DNA testing and forensic science, which took about five hours. At one point, she pulled out a bra from her bag, seeking to illustrate how she thought the garment had been cut from the victim's body. She showed photos of bloody footprints found in the apartment, which she claims are compatible with the defendants.
    Francesco Maresca, a lawyer for the Kercher family, supported the prosecution's stance on the review. Speaking after the court proceedings, he said: "They deserve the just penalty. Killing a girl or anybody else is punished by Italian law with life in prison, so they deserve life in prison, if they are found guilty."
    Next week a lawyer for the victim's family and the defense teams will deliver their closing arguments.
    "I think we'll have a little bit of a different story than what was portrayed in the last two days," said Knox's father.
    Knox herself is expected to address the court before deliberations. The appeals trial, which opened in November, included several witnesses and a fierce debate over the DNA review, which was completed in June.
    A third person, Rudy Hermann Guede of the Ivory Coast, also has been convicted of Kercher's murder in a separate proceeding. Italy's highest criminal court has upheld Guede's conviction and his 16-year prison sentence. Guede denies wrongdoing, but he admits he was in the house.

    Prosecutors seek life sentence for Knox - Yahoo! News

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  8. #128
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    This case has captured my attention from the start. I have read as much as I can about it - pro, con, books, articles,etc. Some thoughts on Amanda. Guilty or innocent? It is atypical for someone with no previous history of acting out violently to suddenly be compelled to commit a brutal slaying. I think the " oddness of her behavior" may more likely be due to Amanda's mental functioning. I believe it was her only childhood friend who spoke up to say that Amanda has always behaved differently. The implication was that Amanda was somewhere on the autism spectrum. I think that description better fits the strangeness she exhibited and for which she was condemned. If one puts the seeming detachment, the cartwheels, the PDAs when she was locked out of her house and needed to go purchase new underwear and even the flatness and inappropriateness of her facial expressions in the context of someone who perhaps has Asbergers, it seems the puzzle pieces click into place.

    Off topic, I cannot access another icon at this time.

  9. #129
    Gold Member Janet296's Avatar
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    ^^ that would explain her odd behavior.

  10. #130
    Gold Member mb86's Avatar
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    Default Amanda Knox Tells Court She Was Betrayed By Italian Police

    Amanda Knox made an impassioned plea for her freedom today, telling an Italian court that she did not kill her British roommate Meredith Kercher and she was "betrayed" by Italian police.
    Knox, who has spent the last four years in prison and is serving a 26 year prison term, began shakily as she addressed the jury in Italian. Overcoming tears, she pressed on with her voice breaking at times.
    "I want to go home. I want to go back to my life. I don't want to be punished... I don't want my future taken away from me for something I didn't do because I am innocent," she said.
    Seated in the courtroom, Knox's mother Edda Mellas and her younger sister Deanna cried.
    Knox, 24, had the last word in her nearly year-long appeal. She spoke after her ex-boyfriend and co-defendant Raffaele Sollecito, 27, said that at the time of his arrest in November 2007 he was "in a beautiful situation." He about to defend his college thesis and he had met this "beautiful vivacious girl, and so sweet," referring to Knox.
    Knox's statement combined sweet memories of her brief time with Sollecito and what she insisted was her friendship with Kercher, but she had bitter words for the Italian police.
    "I made myself available up to the point of total exhaustion... I was betrayed," she said. "I was manipulated."
    "I didn't do what they say I did. I didn't kill. I didn't rape.... I was not there," Knox insisted.

    She dismissed prosecution claims that her relationship with Kercher had become strained and angry.
    "We had a friendship... She was concerned for me. She was always kind to me. She cared about me," Knox said.
    Kercher's death in the Perugia cottage they shared scared Knox, she said.
    "I couldn't believe it. How was that possible first of all. Then fear because this person who I shared my life with, who had the bed next to mine had been killed in our home, and if I had been there that night, I would be dead, I would be killed.
    "The only difference is I was not there. I was a Raffaele's place," she said.
    In an apparent reference to criticism that she and Sollecito were kissing and hugging during the police investigation, Knox said that in her fear, "He was everything to me at that very moment."
    In encouraging the six jurors and two judges to set her free, Knox said, "I am not escaping truth. I am not fleeing from justice. I insist on the truth."
    During his comments, Sollecito told the court that he could not convey all the suffering he has endured.
    "At the end of the day, every single day in prison is like death," he said.
    Sollecito pointed a rubber bracelet he was wearing with the inscription, "Free Amanda and Raffaele" that was given to him.
    "I think it's time for me to take it off," he said, removing the band and hoping the court would not send him back to prison.
    The judges and jury retired to consider a verdict for Knox and Raffaele, which is expected later today.
    Interest in the pending verdict is so intense that court officials removed seats from the court room to accommodate more observers, although it is standing room only.
    The couple are appealing their 2009 conviction for murder. A jury concluded they were guilty of killing Kercher in November 2007 in the cottage the two women shared in Perugia. Knox was sentenced to 26 years in prison and Sollecito was given 25 years.
    A reporter looks back at the Amanda Knox saga

    Amanda Knox Tells Italian Court She Is Innocent

    The six jurors and two judges do not have to be unanimous in their verdict. A majority vote will decide their fate, and if they are evenly split, Knox and Sollecito will walk.
    The final week of the nearly year-long appeal was a barrage of verbal fireworks.
    Lawyers for the prosecution called Knox a sex obsessed "she devil" and a liar. Twice they showed the court grisly photos of Kercher's nude and bloodied body, along with close ups of the gash in her neck.
    "They [the defendants] are young, and they killed for nothing, for no reason," said prosecutor Manuela Comodi.
    An attorney for Kercher's family told the jury, "On Monday, Meredith's mother, sister and brother will be here to hear your sentence.... They will look you in the eyes for the first time. With one look, they will ask you to confirm the sentence."
    Knox's defenders countered saying that she wasn't a "she devil," but was more like Jessica Rabbit, the voluptuous cartoon character who was tender and loving. "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way," was her trademark line.

    Knox's lawyers told the court she had been "crucified" by the media during the investigation and trial, a reference to the often lurid coverage of the case in tabloid papers, as well as seven books and a movie.
    Luciano Ghirga, part of Knox's defense team, told the jury to look at her and told them, "Her heart is full of hope to be set free."
    Forensics may have played a bigger role than rhetoric in the court's verdict. Much of the appeal has revolved around whether the DNA on two key pieces of evidence were credible.
    Two court appointed experts looked at the prosecution's evidence and delivered a damning assessment that the manner in which the DNA was collected, stored and analyzed was below international standards.
    One involved the alleged murder weapon, a knife found in Sollecito's kitchen. Prosecutors claimed the handled contained Knox's DNA and a speck on the blade contained Kercher's DNA. But the experts said the speck was too small to make a second test to confirm the analysis and the experts concluded that DNA came from bread.
    The second piece of evidence was allegedly Sollecito's DNA on the bra clasp cut from Kercher's bra during the attack. The experts said it was improperly handled and likely had been contaminated.

    Amanda Knox Tells Court She Was Betrayed By Italian Police - Yahoo! News

  11. #131
    fgg is offline
    Elite Member fgg's Avatar
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    i'm really interested in what the verdict is. should be coming in today, right?

    this is just another case to remind you never to fuck up in another country. i'm not saying she's innocent but with all the mishandling done by the police, no way she'd be convicted here.
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  12. #132
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Hanging with the raisin girls


    Mishandling in the US usually means guilty people go free e.g. OJ, Casey Anthony.

  13. #133
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    I really don't feel that the evidence is sufficient to uphold this, but this entire thing has been mishandled from the beginning, and it appears that the actual evidence (or lack of evidence) is disregarded by the prosecution.

    I can believe that maybe Amanda and Raffaele know more than they are admitting to, or even that they may have stumbled upon the crime scene earlier than they led people to believe, but under the influence of drugs and in a state of panic and/or confusion, waited until morning to report anything or verify what it was they had actually seen. But I don't think that they were participants in the crime itself or had any prior knowledge of it.

    I also don't like the way that Meredith's family, from the beginning, has set this up as "Meredith vs. Amanda". They seem to be promoting a mentality that if you don't hold Amanda responsible for this, despite a complete lack of DNA evidence to suggest her involvement, that you are not respecting Meredith's life. Even with the overwhelming evidence indicating Guede's undisputable guilt, I haven't heard them disparage him like they do Amanda. It's bizarre.

    I think that Meredith had probably complained to her family about Amanda (her messiness, personality clashes, etc) and so they already disapproved of her and disliked her. When this happened, I think their dislike for Amanda clouded their ability to look at it objectively, and so they were eager to point fingers at her. It's like the more they demonized Amanda, the more intact Meredith's reputation was. I've just been disappointed with the way that they so adamantly insist that Meredith will be done an injustice if Amanda is not held responsible for her death, despite the fact that evidence doesn't support that.

  14. #134
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    Where it all begun


    well,evedence does support their involvement and if the pair will be released over some technicality or pressure it wont surprise me.Her legal team is working hard enough,same one handled some notorious cases..Family can afford it,it seems.
    I ve been following that case and i believe they are not innocent.
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  15. #135
    fgg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by effie2 View Post
    well,evedence does support their involvement and if the pair will be released over some technicality or pressure it wont surprise me.
    what evidence supports their involvement? the bra and knife? those were both mishandled.

    Meredith Kercher's Family Is Not Ready to Forgive

    The family of Meredith Kercher said today they still believe Amanda Knox took part in her murder and are in no mood to think about forgiveness.

    Kercher's family spoke as the six jurors and two judges were deliberating whether to uphold or throw out the 2009 murder conviction of Knox and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito.

    The Kerchers have stayed away from the nearly year-long trial in Perugia, Italy, until today when they arrived to witness the appeals verdict.

    Meredith Kercher's mother Arline was joined by her sister Stephanie and her brother Lyle. When asked if they believe in the original guilty verdict, Stephanie Kercher said, "We were satisfied with the verdict… Nothing's changed."

    The family spoke with dignity, but made it clear they are intent on justice for the family member the remember as "Mez." Lyle Kercher said their hurt has not been eased since the November 2007 murder.

    "It's very difficult to talk about forgiveness at this time, with the [media] hype around the case. And the defendant is involved in that. The brutality of it has been forgotten," said Kercher's brother, Lyle. "There comes a point when we are just battling against what's essentially a PR machine."

    Family of Meredith Kercher Not Willing to Forgive

    Referring to the gruesome autopsy photos that were shown during the trial and appeal, the brother said, "If we had them all up here," he said pointing to the wall behind him, "you would find it hard to forgive someone who had done that to your loved one."

    "I'm not sure we'll be looking for forgiveness for a while," he said.

    The Kercher family, who traveled from their home in Britain, are wary about the current attention on Knox instead of Meredith Kercher.

    "It's been four years now, and the focus has shifted for obvious reasons onto the proceedings at court at the moment, but Meredith has been forgotten in all of it," said Stephanie Kercher.

    If the appeal is overturned, Knox and Sollecito will be freed from prison. If the conviction is upheld, Knox may have to serve out her 26 year prison sentence and Sollecito will have to complete his 25 year term. Those sentences could be reduced or increased to life, which is what the prosecution is seeking.

    Kercher, a student at the University of Leeds, was studying abroad in Perugia for a year when she was killed. She had been sharing an apartment with Knox, an American student studying abroad, and two Italian women. She was found partially nude and with her throat slit in her bedroom on Nov. 2, 2007.

    A third person, Rudy Guede, 22, was also convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison for his role in her murder.

    "Her death was unreal in many ways," said Arline Kercher, Meredith's mother, "and still is. I still look for her."

    During her final statement to the court in pleading for her freedom today, Knox said Kercher was her friend, someone she "shared my life with.. She cared for me."

    Kercher's mother downplayed their friendship.

    "I don't think they were that close... Amanda only got there in the beginning of October and Meredith was murdered on the first of November," Arline Kercher said. "I think they were friendly, but not that close."

    The family remembered Meredith Kercher. "Mez was just a lovely girl ... she was always there for everyone," Stephanie Kercher said.

    Arline Kercher cited a line in a story she read about the murder saying, "I think it happened to Meredith because she was all that they weren't."
    can't post pics because my computer's broken and i'm stupid

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