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Thread: FIFTY Dead, 53 Injured by Shooter at Orlando Gay Bar

  1. #121
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    Here's a thought - why doesn't EVERYBODY stop arguing over which imaginary friend is the real one and just mind their own business?
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  2. #122
    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    There are so many Islamic scholars who have spoken out against ISIS. It seems ISIS are the only ones (among Muslims) who consider themselves to be Muslim. Apparently proclaiming yourself to be "Muslim" and "acting in accordance with Islam" is enough for you to generalize their behaviour across 2 billion people?

    Furthermore, ISIS has called for random people to arm themselves and attack. They actually don't know who is acting "for" them. At this point, you could probably take a shit in a paper bag, stick it on someone's doorstep and set it alight using an ISIS flag and ISIS would claim credit for it.


    There are over 80 different sects of Islam. They all follow the Quran, but with varying different interpretations on certain issues. To further complicate issues, there are also hundreds of thousands of ahadith (supplementary narrations supposedly being passed down from the time of Muhammad). Many of these ahadith contradict each other, and the Quran. Depending on which sect you belong to determines which of these ahadith (if any) you accept and which you reject. Acceptance or rejection of certain ahadith can drastically alter your perception of the religion you follow, because many ahadith contain 'explanations' of this verse or that verse, as well as (alleged) historical reasoning behind the revelation of many Quran verses (ayahs).

    Add to that, there are also tafsir, which are explanations of the meaning of the Quran written by scholars. This is where men who have studied Islam extensively have written what they think each verse of the Quran means. Sometimes they use ahadith to support their statement, sometimes not. Each of the tafsir authors is held in varying levels of esteem, and whether you accept their interpretation or not is up to you, and also whether or not the tafsir author was the same sect as you. For example, you wouldn't see a Sunni accepting a Shia-authored tafsir, and vice versa.

    Lastly, there are different schools of fiqh (jurisprudence) where scholars issue opinions on various issues. Could be anything from child custody, to wearing jeans, the correct way to pray, whether you can do <x> in ramadan etc. Scholars issue fatwa's (religious rulings) about these topics. AGAIN, it depends on whether you, as a Muslim, accept this scholar AND their ruling. If you don't, they mean nothing to you.

    Sorry for the long explanation there, but I thought it was necessary, because you, like a LOT of people, seem to think Muslims are one big cohesive group who all believe the exact same thing, but that is NOT the case. Mass generalizations of this sort are grossly misinformed.


    It's a matter of culture, not religion. Unless you can point me to anywhere in the Quran/ahadith or tafsirs where it says it's fine to blow yourself up? I suppose it's much easier to blame an entire religion as an easy 'out' though instead of examining why certain groups are they way there though, that is much more difficult to fix.

    What you're saying is like me saying things like:
    "The Westboro Baptist Church are the true "Good Christians" therefore Christianity is toxic."

    "America was built on the backs of slaves by their white Christian slave owners. Since slavery is immoral, and Christianity endorses slavery, then Christianity is toxic and must be wiped out."

    "Catholic Church priests molest and rape children. Therefore Christians are toxic."

    "Christians are evil because they bomb abortion clinics."

    "Jews are evil because Israel is occupying another country and stealing their land while killing and oppressing their citizens. Americans are also evil because they fund it."

    etc..



    If the revelations that have come out in the press are true, that the shooter was actually gay, was a regular at Pulse, and had a Grindr profile which he used, what do you think now? Do you think your attack on the entire religion of Isam is a valid one?

    My conjecture:

    I have studied Islam for quite a few years, and IF what is reported (that the shooter was gay), my preliminary, non-expert (in psychology) opinion would be this:

    1. He grew up with a father who was religiously overbearing, always talking about the "evils" of homosexuality (which has been publicised in the press).
    2. He himself is gay.
    3. Therefore he is a self-hating gay.

    I don't know what sect of Islam he was, but I can say there are commonalities between most of the sects:
    (a) That homosexuality is frowned apon (like most religions).
    (b) That the only SURE 100% way into heaven (Jannah) is to die as a martyr. If you have 'sins' in Islam, a lot of sects believe you'll have to pay for those sins (in a purgatory-like manner, or even a stint in Jahannaham - hell), or even you may not get to heaven at all.

    As to what constitues a 'martyr', again, that is up to the specifics of exactly what his 'group' of Muslims believed or not, and we can't really say. Going to guess by his actions, it's a very broad definition though, so maybe a 'dying during a Jihad = heaven.'

    4. Even though he's being painted now as 'not very religious' I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would agree that childhood indoctrination doesn't spin in the back in your mind, especially when you are still exposed to it (his father) whether you choose to follow it or not.

    6. "Something" happened (dunno what? Maybe we'll find out or maybe we won't) to bring this to a head.

    7. So you've got a closeted-gay man who was raised with Islamic indoctrination. According to his belief, he's NOT getting into heaven simply because he's gay. What's the solution? Either a lifetime of penance and no more gay attraction? Or a 'quick fix' of getting into heaven by dying as a martyr? But you can't just claim you're fighting a Jihad, or kill some randos, you've gotta have a cause.

    8. So he (apparently) called 911 and claimed he was executing a Jihad in behalf of ISIS and starts killing those who are like him (gay), knowing all the while that he'd be shot dead by police. So he literally killed himself, and his problem (gays), and ensured that he'd die as a 'martyr' by executing Jihad in behalf of ISIS.

    If my conjecture is correct, that would make him a martyr in his eyes, granting him 100% chance of getting into heaven. I guess he showed Allah he was willing to kill himself twice over (literally and figuratively).

    However, that is only my conjecture. I will change my mind if and when more facts become available. Sorry if I have offended anyone.

    ~~~

    LASTLY, I just want to make one more thing clear. ALL OF YOU who jump on the "Islam is toxic!" bandwagon are playing right into ISIS's hands. Your mass generalizations HELP them immensely.

    Their aim is recruitment, obviously. The best way to accomplish that is to alienate Muslims from their actual homes (eg. in the West). How do you do that? Well you have to turn the populus against Muslims. Then Muslims will feel unwelcome and become disillusioned, and where will they go? To ISIS hopefully! This is why ISIS have called for 'lone wolf' attacks and keep talking about 'sleeper cells' they supposedly have who are ready to strike. It''s to help along the "We hate Muslims" type thinking of non-Muslims.

    When you call for discrimination against Islam or Muslims (as a whole) you're only serving to alienate the Muslims who are just regular people. Who don't want to kill you, enslave you, look down upon you etc.. and furthering ISIS's goals.

    This isn't to say that we should tolerate extremists or terrorists, but that mass generalizations against 2 billion people are at best unhelpful, and at worst dangerous.


    ~~~

    Sorry this post is so huge (I didn't mean it to be when I started writing!) but if you're actually interested, I can show you HEAPS of Islamic scholars who have/are denounced ISIS as not Muslims. Furthermore, I can show you copious examples of exactly WHY they consider them to not be Muslims.

    You gotta ask yourself. If the Saudis - who are known to have the most extreme form of Islam (Wahabbi'ism) are anti-ISIS, then exactly what Muslims are "for" them? A look at the majority of people who are successfully recruited by them will show you the answer there.

    Thank you, and a big thank you to anyone who managed to read through all of this!
    Thank you Janus for this perspective. Actually, I consider all religions to be toxic just Islam to be a tad more deadly these days.

    My comment did not refer just to the attack on Pulse. It was a general comment from a European perspective and I did mention in my own clumsy way that I know the nutcases are a minority. It was mainly a rant that I considered deleting again and again because I don't want to be that person and because I have nothing against the average Muslim. Today I went out of my way to buy food and toiletries for a group of immigrants stuck in my country. Who cares what they worship?

    Anyway, I will be taking a break from discussions of this kind because I don't like what they bring out in me.
    What if Superman is psychotic and everyone can see that he's Clark Kent but they just play along not to set him off?

  3. #123
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Sometimes I just love my city...


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  4. #124
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    Santa is an elitist mother fucker -- giving expensive shit to rich kids and nothing to poor kids.

  5. #125
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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  6. #126
    Elite Member kasippu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    T
    What you're saying is like me saying things like:
    "The Westboro Baptist Church are the true "Good Christians" therefore Christianity is toxic."

    "America was built on the backs of slaves by their white Christian slave owners. Since slavery is immoral, and Christianity endorses slavery, then Christianity is toxic and must be wiped out."

    "Catholic Church priests molest and rape children. Therefore Christians are toxic."

    "Christians are evil because they bomb abortion clinics."

    Well extreme ones are. Kids are preparing for confirmation and most of the bible stories have me going WHAT???
    ALL extreme people scare me.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasippu View Post
    Well extreme ones are. Kids are preparing for confirmation and most of the bible stories have me going WHAT???
    ALL extreme people scare me.
    Yes, me too.

    But you have perfectly illustrated my previously-alluded to point regarding ISIS. MOST of their recruits are younger people (early 20's or younger - even teenagers). I think, even if you were raised as a Muslim (cultural or otherwise), you reach a point in your life, which typically is teens or early-20's, where you assess the religious situation for yourself and really 'define' your own path regarding your own beliefs (separate maybe from your parents). I think a lot of cases, when you do choose what 'version' of the religion you follow, you (at first) become rather zealous in your interpretation and implementation. Over time this mellows out and you become more accepting and less rigid in your understanding.

    Of course this happens with all things your parents raised you to believe (the self-assessment), but religion is the one that is at issue here. That's why I think you see "militant" Atheists, Muslim girls who start wearing the hijab/niqab if they didn't before, etc.. and these are usually aged in their teens or early-20s when they start becoming more 'religious' in their thinking on certain issue/s.

    That's why ISIS is targetting, and mostly successful at, recruiting teenagers and young adults. Their thinking and opinions on Islam are much more malleable and susceptible to influence than older people. ISIS target recruitment at children and just kill older Muslims within their reach who aren't as easily influenced. That's why ISIS spend most of their time killing (older) Muslims, and have no trouble declaring them 'non Muslims'. They won't change based on empty promises and cute pictures.

    That's why the 'face' of their recruitment drive are younger people, and they post memes and cute pictures and jars of Nutella with spoons in them - ie. dumb things that appeal to kids. Once they've got them there and they realize it's bullshit, it's too late to change your mind or escape though.

    ISIS jihadists reveal bizarre soft spot for Nutella | Daily Mail Online

    (sorry for the daily fail link but there are some pictures there).

    ~~~
    Anyway, sorry if this is obvious to everyone already, just my 0.02c.
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  8. #128
    Elite Member BITTER's Avatar
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    ^^^I'm sure that is an endorsement Nutella can do without...
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  9. #129
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    CIA has not found any link between Orlando killer and Isis, says agency chief

    The Central Intelligence Agency chief has not been “able to uncover any link” between Orlando killer Omar Mateen and the Islamic State, despite Mateen’s stated allegiance to the jihadist group during Sunday’s LGBT nightclub massacre.

    Reinforcing four days of internal government assessments across multiple agencies and a Federal Bureau of Investigation inquiry, the CIA director, John Brennan, contrasted “lone wolf” killers in Orlando and San Bernardino last December with recent terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, which he told the Senate intelligence committee were “directed” by Isis leadership in Syria and Iraq.

    Brennan described a spread-bet strategy by Isis as it loses territory in Iraq and Syria. The group’s “terrorist capacity or global reach” remain undiminished by US-led advances on Isis-held cities like Manbij and Fallujah, the latest developments in a war nearing its third year, and Brennan said the US should expect Isis to launch accelerating terrorist attacks worldwide, a reversion to its pre-2014 status quo.


    “As the pressure mounts on Isil, we judge that it will intensify its global terror campaign to maintain its dominance of the global terrorism agenda,” Brennan said, using the administration’s preferred acronym for Isis.


    But Brennan indicated that the shape of those attacks will vary. Isis is consolidating and “interconnecting” its foreign branches, he said, particularly its “most dangerous” branch in Libya, and also placing operatives in western countries, chiefly in Europe. It will also “inspire attacks by sympathizers with no ties to the group”, which Brennan said taxes security agencies’ ability to notice ahead of an attack.


    Brennan urged the panel to renew a stalled push from the intelligence agencies to gain greater powers to access Americans’ encrypted data. Pushback from senators on the panel led Brennan to endorse a “congressional commission” on expanding legal authorities available to US security agencies to access encrypted data, and insisted he did not back a mechanism “perceived as a backdoor”.
    “It has to be an effort undertaken by the government and private sector in a very thoughtful manner … and not cede this environment to the terrorists and those who would do us harm,” Brennan said.
    The CIA director’s comments shortly before the House of Representatives voted down an amendment that would bar the security services from accessing Americans’ communications without warrants and compelling communications firms to weaken encryption.


    Isis “remains a formidable adversary”, Brennan said, and the US is in for “a long and difficult fight” against it. Isis commands legions of fighters that “far exceeds what al-Qaida had at its height”, he said.
    While those government estimates on al-Qaida’s fighting strength varied tremendously between 2001 and 2014, Brennan suggested Isis could rely on as many as 38,000 adherents, mostly combatants, across Iraq, Syria, Libya, Sinai, Nigeria, Yemen, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Its fighter totals in Iraq and Syria have declined over the past year, he said.


    The FBI has determined that Mateen was not directed by or in contact with Isis before his attack at the Pulse nightclub. In Facebook posts from inside the club and a 911 call during the attack, Mateen reportedly declared his allegiance to Isis, something investigators are examining, particularly in light of his apparently complicated relationship with his sexuality.


    While there appears to be no indication thus far that Mateen encrypted his digital data, Brennan said he “wonder[ed] whether we as a government do have the ability to monitor that domain for threats to our national security”. His comment harkened back to an ultimately abandoned effort by the FBI and the justice department to compel Apple to weaken encryption on its operating system for a speculative effort to access an iPhone used by one of the San Bernardino terrorists. Its fallout accelerated acrimony and distrust between the US government and Silicon Valley, particularly over digital security.

    “This feud between the tech companies and law enforcement has to stop,” urged the Senate panel chairman, Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican.


    The feud persists in Congress too. Privacy advocates in the House pushed an amendment to the annual defense appropriations bill that would have closed the so-called “backdoor search” provision, which allows US intelligence and law enforcement agencies to search without warrants for Americans’ data inside the National Security Agency’s huge hoard of collected international communications data.
    The proposed amendment would also have prevented the government mandating that companies weaken their products’ encryption.


    Advocates of the measure said it was important to wage the fight in the wake of the Orlando shooting, when advocates of the security agencies might be expected to hold the political advantage.
    Before the vote, co-sponsor Thomas Massie, a Kentucky Republican, told the Guardian: “We’re pressing forward because passage of our amendment in this political environment will send the strongest message possible that Congress is still dedicated to the privacy protections enshrined in the fourth amendment.”


    Ahead of the vote on Massie’s amendment, which was co-sponsored by California Democrat Zoe Lofgren, senior members of the House intelligence committee issued a letter urging its rejection and explicitly referencing the Orlando shooting.

    “We cannot be lulled into a false sense of security,” wrote chairman Devin Nunes of California and Lynn Westmoreland of Georgia. “As recent events in Orlando have made tragically clear, terrorists will continue to attack the US homeland.”
    The amendment was defeated by a 222-198 vote.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ghtclub-attack

  10. #130
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    Orlando gunman searched for Facebook reaction during Pulse nightclub attack

    The Orlando gunman used Facebook during his deadly rampage, apparently seeking to gauge reaction in real time while also vowing more attacks, it emerged on Thursday, as Barack Obama flew in to the city to console families of the victims. Omar Mateen went online and searched for the terms “Pulse Orlando” and “shooting”, according to a letter released by a Senate committee, even as his victims lay dead or dying in the gay nightclub.



    The 29-year-old American Muslim also apparently posted “America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic state..I pledge my alliance to [its leader] abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me,” on one of at least five Facebook accounts thought to be associated with him.


    According to the Senate committee’s letter, he then posted: “The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” and “You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.”


    In a final message, Mateen apparently wrote: “In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa.”


    Republican senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, chairman of the Senate homeland security committee, quoted the posts in a letter to the Facebook chief executive, Mark Zuckerberg, asking for help uncovering Mateen’s digital tracks. Johnson did not explain how the committee obtained the information about Mateen’s Facebook activity.


    Johnson also wrote that his staff learned that in May Mateen used Facebook to search for information on the San Bernardino terrorists and on 4 June 2016, Mateen apparently searched “Baghdadi Speech”.

    The senator added: “My staff has also learned that Mateen apparently used Facebook to conduct frequent local law enforcement and FBI searches, including searching for specific law enforcement offices.”


    As club-goers desperately sent text messages to loved ones, Mateen is known to have pledged allegiance to Isis in a 911 phone call during the three-hour attack. However, the head of the CIA said on Thursday he has been “not able to uncover any link” between Mateen and the militant group.
    Reinforcing four days’ worth of internal government assessments across multiple agencies and an FBI inquiry, director John Brennan contrasted the “lone wolf” killers in Orlando and San Bernardino last December with the recent terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels, which he told the Senate intelligence committee were “directed” by Isis leadership in Syria and Iraq.


    Brennan described a spread-bet strategy by Isis as it loses territory in its Iraq and Syria strongholds. The group’s “terrorist capacity or global reach” remain undiminished by US-led advances on Isis-held cities like Manbij and Falluja, the latest developments in a war nearing its third year, and Brennan said the US should expect Isis to launch accelerating terrorist attacks worldwide, a reversion to its pre-2014 status quo.


    “As the pressure mounts on Isil, we judge that it will intensify its global terror campaign to maintain its dominance of the global terrorism agenda,” Brennan testified, using the administration’s preferred acronym for Isis.


    But Brennan indicated the shape of those attacks will vary. Isis is consolidating and “interconnecting” its foreign branches, particularly its “most dangerous” branch in Libya, and place operatives in western countries, chiefly in Europe. It will also “inspire attacks by sympathizers with no ties to the group”, which Brennan said taxes the security agencies’ ability to notice ahead of an attack.
    America’s worst terrorist attack since 11 September 2001 began at 2am on Sunday and ended three hours later with Mateen being killed by a police Swat team. The FBI says it is still gathering evidence at Pulse and analysing mobile phone location data to piece together Mateen’s activities leading up to the massacre.


    Orlando on Thursday awaited the arrival of Obama, who plans to meet victims’ families and doctors, paramedics and first responders and offer words of solace. Vice-President Joe Biden will accompany him.


    Air Force One landed in Orlando at 12.45pm in bright sunshine. Obama descended the steps with Orlando congresswoman Corinne Brown and Florida senator Marco Rubio. They were greeted by officials including Biden, Governor Rick Scott of Florida and Orlando’s mayor, Buddy Dyer.
    The speed with which Obama’s trip has been organised reflects the gravity of the tragedy. Last December, he made a stop in San Bernardino, California, on his way to holidaying in Hawaii, 16 days after the shooting there, but did not deliver remarks. He went to Charleston, South Carolina, nine days after a gunman killed nine people at an African American church.
    The White House press secretary, Josh Earnest, said: “When the president makes a trip to another American city, we’ve got a week or so to plan it. In this case we’ve had about 48 hours to plan it.”
    Earnest said Obama would tell Orlando’s residents “that they’re not alone, even as they endure what surely have been several dark nights”.
    The president also intends to speak publicly during his visit “to make clear that the country stands with the people of Orlando, stands with the LGBT community in Orlando, as they grieve for their loss”, the spokesman said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...tclub-shooting

  11. #131
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stella blue View Post
    Here's a thought - why doesn't EVERYBODY stop arguing over which imaginary friend is the real one and just mind their own business?
    The problem is that the fundamentalist fringes of most religions, and Islam is no exception, tend to be existentialist with their practice. In other words, it's not enough to worship privately and think of the scripture you are reading as symbolic and/or apocryphal. Instead, it is a guide to your daily existence, even all these thousand-plus years later. You can see it in Orthodox Jewish dietary laws -- not eating pork and shellfish was actually a pretty good idea in 100BC through 600 AD. But now? The only reason to do it is because someone said not to do it way back when. In Israel, and in some parts of the US, Haredim pursue the separation of the sexes almost as zealously as fundamentalist muslims do. Plus, the issue of closing businesses on the day of rest, etc. They aren't content to have their women stay on their own side of the street, or their business be closed on the day of rest - EVERYBODY ELSE has to do it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Yes, me too.

    But you have perfectly illustrated my previously-alluded to point regarding ISIS. MOST of their recruits are younger people (early 20's or younger - even teenagers). I think, even if you were raised as a Muslim (cultural or otherwise), you reach a point in your life, which typically is teens or early-20's, where you assess the religious situation for yourself and really 'define' your own path regarding your own beliefs (separate maybe from your parents). I think a lot of cases, when you do choose what 'version' of the religion you follow, you (at first) become rather zealous in your interpretation and implementation. Over time this mellows out and you become more accepting and less rigid in your understanding.
    ISIS presents another problem in that they are not a breakaway version of Islam, but rather a SUPER STRICT (and sadistic) back-to-basics version of Islam. For that reason, young people who want to get with the "authentic" version of this religion may also find their way in its direction. ISIS also attracts basic malcontents, serial killers, spree killers, misogynists, rapists, and people with explosive personalities because there is a VERY wide latitude in their version of jurisprudence that makes it officially "okay" to kill someone for the smallest offense. You want to kill someone? You want to rape underaged girls from fringe minority groups? Welcome to the Levant!

  12. #132
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    I don't believe that genuine fervent religious beliefs factor into most of these events. It may feature as some tacked-on justification, but the thing that nearly all of these nutters have in common – regardless of religion – is a lack of connection to broader society which is combined with anger issues. They don't function successfully within society, and they don't have a sense of belonging to it. The stereotype of the disaffected loner exists for a reason. They don't tend to have genuine friendships. They don't have good jobs or can't keep a job due to a combination of a lack of education and personality issues, and they feel the lack of life/career/relationship success is deeply unfair. They don't accept responsibility for a situation and work to fix it; they blame failing to achieve that on something outside themselves.

    When something goes wrong or it dawns on them that they aren't the successful person they felt that they deserved to be, instead of having a support system and dealing with things in a healthy way, all they have is rage and then they find the target that suits their needs. People lash out at families. School shooters lash out at peers, parents and teachers. Employees lash out at bosses and coworkers. Religious types lash out at "sinners." Racists and bigots lash out at whatever group they feel is responsible for the world's ills. Conspiritards lash out at government workers. Or people just find some crowd.

    This particular failure claimed the act for ISIS, but that is just so much bullshit. It is only an attempt to come across as bad-ass instead of as the pathetic loser that he is. Now he can claim to be part of something bigger than himself. He can claim to belong to something. He's a terrorist. In his mind, he's important and he finally made a mark; he's not just an ordinary loser anymore.

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of that, Twitchy. but he did not pledge allegiance to ISIS in a vacuum. He had a dad who considers himself some kind of auxiliary leader of the Taliban. He cheered the 9/11 attacks. He was in contact with a jihadi who blew himself up in either Iraq or Syria.

    Similarly, the San Bernardino shooter was not a societal misfit. He had a wife. He had a small child. He had a good-paying job.

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    No, not in a vacuum. There's a host of contributing factors.

    anyway...
    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    most
    Mr San Bernardino may not have appeared to be a misfit from the outside, but I'd guess he felt like one. The lack of connection popped up in a couple of places.

    "He was a very isolated, introverted individual, with really no friends that we could identify" in the San Bernardino County Health Department, where he had worked for five years, the lawyers said. San Bernardino Shooter Was Teased About Beard, Family Lawyers Say - NBC News

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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    No, not in a vacuum. There's a host of contributing factors.

    anyway...

    Mr San Bernardino may not have appeared to be a misfit from the outside, but I'd guess he felt like one. The lack of connection popped up in a couple of places.

    "He was a very isolated, introverted individual, with really no friends that we could identify" in the San Bernardino County Health Department, where he had worked for five years, the lawyers said. San Bernardino Shooter Was Teased About Beard, Family Lawyers Say - NBC News
    I have to admit, I don't find a person to be quite as socially isolated when they have a spouse and a child - compared to, let's say a John Hinkley or Dylan Roof or Adam Lanza. However, I was just reading about the San Ysrido mass shooting (1984 - 21 dead), and that guy had a wife and two small adolescent children. So, yeah, having a family can be a non-factor for someone who has serious emotional issues or undiagnosed mental problems (the San Ysridro guy actually sought out psychiatric help right a couple of days before the shooting, but was unable to see a counselor).

    What is disturbing about ISIS is their willingness to give a blessing (and a thousand virgins) to seemingly anyone who is willing to commit an atrocity in their name. They position themselves as a caliphate, which is basically not just a territory-holding organization, but one that is inextricably linked to some re-birth of the true Islam.

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    By pacific breeze in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
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