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Thread: FIFTY Dead, 53 Injured by Shooter at Orlando Gay Bar

  1. #46
    Elite Member Brah's Avatar
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    I'm honestly upset that he made a pledge to IsIs, because now that's the perfect fucking distraction from gun issues.

    I don't understand gun owners. I don't understand it. Who needs a weapon to kill? Who needs that, and is unwilling to part with it when people are DYING. The worst mass shooting in US history, over 160 shooting this year, and not a thing will be done. I am truly, TRULY, disgusted by my country. In times like this I hold absolutely no allegiance to it. I can't imagine the pain of the hostages, those from before they died and those who survived, and all their families. This could have been avoided---since Columbine (in terms of very high profile shootings), if laws were properly changed, how many deaths could we have avoided? How many innocent people would still be alive? Yet people value guns above other human lives (and in the south and Midwest, I bet these people identify as Christian, yet they value metal and lead over others' souls).
    Last edited by Brah; June 12th, 2016 at 06:10 PM. Reason: I curse too much

  2. #47
    Gold Member ADel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Kat* View Post
    "A motivational factor for the homegrown terrorist is the perceived injustice that their “group” is experiencing. Some individuals may take on a jihadist mission to overthrow their government for ideological reasons while others may join as a movement towards solidarity with the group that they identify with. A common motivational factor that appears in the literature is identity. Membership into a group is a positive attraction for homegrown terrorist (Horgan, 1999). This notion suggests that individuals who feel isolated from the broader society are drawn to membership with a group that they feel gives them an “identity”. The need for belonging is intertwined with the motivation for identity." - Home Grown Terrorism in the United States (US) : Causes, Affiliations and Policy implications, Ashlie Perry & Binneh Minteh


    It's not as simple as him wanting to live a certain way. The mechanisms that turn Muslims into potential terrorists are the same as those that turn some Americans into right-wing extremists and militant misogynists. Dylann Roof frequently talked about white people being victimized by blacks in his manifesto and he found home with racists online. Elliot Rodger felt rejected by women and he felt like he belonged and understood when he started frequenting online MRA forums. It's a vicious cycle of marginalization (perceived or otherwise) and radicalization. How we react in the aftermath of such incidents matters too. Unlike incidents of non-Islamic domestic terrorism, a blanket suspicion will inevitably fall on the entire Muslim community in the aftermath, breeding further resentment and marginalization. The west automatically assumes religion to be the prime motive for Islamist terrorism while other acts of terrorism are given a nuanced analysis. This rush to reduce Islamist acts of terror to simplistic one-dimensional terms (aka Islam) is seen by many Muslims as evidence of West's contempt for Islam. This feeling of being marginalized and victimized is exploited by jihadist propagandists ("See, we told you the West hates the Muslims and is never going to accept you as one of their own").


    Majority of the Americans were not afraid of white supremacists in the aftermath of the Charleston shooting because it doesn't quite capture the imagination of the public like the foreignness of ISIS or Islamic radicalism does. I'm not looking to absolve terrorists of personal responsibility, but I do believe we need understand the mechanism behind radicalization to prevent such incidents in the future.
    With all due respect I'm quite well versed in the subject. I understand the mechanisms. I have read extensively on these issues.

    I marvel that a young people (he's hardly unique) born and raised under English Common Law can feel an affinity for an ideology more at home pre-Enlightenment. The susceptibility is remarkable to me.

  3. #48
    Elite Member *Kat*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADel View Post
    With all due respect I'm quite well versed in the subject. I understand the mechanisms. I have read extensively on these issues.

    I marvel that a young people (he's hardly unique) born and raised under English Common Law can feel an affinity for an ideology more at home pre-Enlightenment. The susceptibility is remarkable to me.
    Good for you. I guess I was thrown off by this part of your post. "I just don't understand how someone living in the US can sympathize with ISIS. I get that growing up immersed in a particular culture could lead to those beliefs but living here? I just don't get it"

  4. #49
    Gold Member ADel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Kat* View Post
    Good for you. I guess I was thrown off by this part of your post. "I just don't understand how someone living in the US can sympathize with ISIS. I get that growing up immersed in a particular culture could lead to those beliefs but living here? I just don't get it"
    Yes. I explained it. I marvel that those raised under English Common Law could find such appeal in a pre-Enlightenment ideology in the numbers they do.

  5. #50
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    Cue the entirely predictable silence from Muslim community/religious leaders. It's hard to condemn the brutal murder of homosexuals who the holy, infallible Koran teaches must be put to death by observant Muslims and is therefore righteous and justified. If you can't get a high velocity assault rifle then throwing gays off tall buildings works too; requires less ammo.
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  6. #51
    Bronze Member Marmar2's Avatar
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    I just don't understand how he alone was able to get off over 100 shots and have such amazing accuracy? I don't believe 50 people dead and 53 people injured by the hands of only one man. Where was the security? Something is missing here.




  7. #52
    Elite Member Seth82's Avatar
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    I've just been so angry and sad about this all day.

    may the victims of this senseless tragedy rest in peace.

    gotta love the far right kooks praying when any other day they want us dead too. fuck them and their fake sympathy.
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  8. #53
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADel View Post
    Yes. I explained it. I marvel that those raised under English Common Law could find such appeal in a pre-Enlightenment ideology in the numbers they do.
    They feel rejected by the very culture they grew up in for being outsiders, in this case Muslims. I mean, look how bigoted people are against any minority. The extremist groups capitalize on this and the person's narrow-mindedness/naivete/not-the-sharpest-knife qualities to recruit. Voila. It's not hard to understand.
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  9. #54
    Gold Member ADel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    They feel rejected by the very culture they grew up in for being outsiders, in this case Muslims. I mean, look how bigoted people are against any minority. The extremist groups capitalize on this and the person's narrow-mindedness/naivete/not-the-sharpest-knife qualities to recruit. Voila. It's not hard to understand.
    These people want to establish a Caliphate and live under laws considered barbaric by Western standards. They find these laws and this lifestyle appealing. That is remarkable to me.

    Many of the ISIS sympathizers (and groups like ISIS, they're hardly unique) here and in places like the UK are not marginalized, poor, or stupid. To the contrary, many are college educated and naive wouldn't be the first descriptor I'd assign. Narrow-minded goes with the territory, though, that I agree.

    I get that there is a recruiting machine in place. I've read Dabiq. What I find amazing is that they can read the materials and find the idea of living under a Caliphate at all enticing.
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  10. #55
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    .. All those people dead. All those families lives ruined forever... All the lost wonderful assets to the community...

    I think America could learn a little by looking at Australian gun Laws.. Why they were changed and the positive effect it has had.

  11. #56
    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmar2 View Post
    I just don't understand how he alone was able to get off over 100 shots and have such amazing accuracy? I don't believe 50 people dead and 53 people injured by the hands of only one man. Where was the security? Something is missing here.




    They were unarmed, probably drunk and he hunted them down and killed them everywhere he could find them. He also claimed to take hostages and that there were explosives as well so the police didn't act early enough as he was just shooting them one by one.

    I don't think this is islamic terror in the strict sense. It is not like the attacks in France and Belgium. It's a psycho extreme homophobe who was looking for some justification for his actions and found them in Islam. ISIS likes the outcome and is all too happy to take credit. At the same time, muslims need to take a hard look on their religion and what it inspires. There is an extreme level of "othering" encouraged in it so they see non muslims as not even human.
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    I heard on BBC last night that he also disliked African-Americans and Latinos...apparently there were quite of few of both groups in the club.
    I also wonder if he was closeted too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmar2 View Post
    I just don't understand how he alone was able to get off over 100 shots and have such amazing accuracy? I don't believe 50 people dead and 53 people injured by the hands of only one man. Where was the security? Something is missing here.

    You go in to a crowded place with a gun and you don't need accuracy. You spray gunfire for as many initial targets as you can and then pick off the rest as you will. One sick bastard with a gun can cause so much destruction in a terrifyingly short amount of time.

    I feel so much for the people caught up in this and their families. I'm also keeping the people who are having to work the scene in my thoughts as well. They have been having to sift through this carnage while victims mobile phones are ringing and beeping endlessly as people desperately try to contact their loved ones. They are far stronger people than I could ever be.
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  14. #59
    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    this is incredibly sad and devastating. there are no words.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmar2 View Post
    I just don't understand how he alone was able to get off over 100 shots and have such amazing accuracy? I don't believe 50 people dead and 53 people injured by the hands of only one man. Where was the security? Something is missing here.
    They were sitting ducks.

    He used a modified AR-15 ... piece of cake.
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