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Thread: Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey's death

  1. #106
    Elite Member sweetness's Avatar
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    ^^ I didn't know that.... I can understand the bedwetting (one of my kids had a really hard time with it), but a 6 year old soiling herself is definitely odd.

  2. #107
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    Yes, it's definitely one of those red flags for abuse, but there's also undiagnosed IBS and UTI's that could account for it. Patsy could've just thought JB was being "difficult" and not searched for a medical reason.

  3. #108
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    Damn. Sasha, I'm tapping you as lead for the new investigation lol

    We're all counting on you, kid
    "Give me your love and I'll give you--the Perfect Love Song!"

  4. #109
    Elite Member sweetness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Yes, it's definitely one of those red flags for abuse, but there's also undiagnosed IBS and UTI's that could account for it. Patsy could've just thought JB was being "difficult" and not searched for a medical reason.
    Somewhere upthread it mentioned that she had been to the doctor 30 times in 3 years, so I guess the doctors were aware?

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Yes, it's definitely one of those red flags for abuse, but there's also undiagnosed IBS and UTI's that could account for it. Patsy could've just thought JB was being "difficult" and not searched for a medical reason.
    Well the poor kid had been to the pediatrician 30 times in 3 years. You would think it would have come up in consultation wouldnt you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Yes, it's definitely one of those red flags for abuse, but there's also undiagnosed IBS and UTI's that could account for it. Patsy could've just thought JB was being "difficult" and not searched for a medical reason.
    Yes it could have been, but when there is a dead child with findings of "chronic inflammation of the vaginal mucosa" meaning some of the abuse occurred more than 72 hrs. prior to the death, "soiling" takes on enormous and sinister significance.

    Dr. Cyril Wecht

    Quote Originally Posted by fatguyinalittlecoat View Post
    Damn. Sasha, I'm tapping you as lead for the new investigation lol

    We're all counting on you, kid
    Ha, I wish I had the resources to do it. I was at one time a private investigator and when I get hold of a thing I can't let go until I know the full truth.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by aabbcc View Post
    But on the other hand, how do we know they didn't have this test fixed in their favour?

    Personally, the fact that they got someone else to do the test makes me a bit suspicious. Of course, I think they're guilty, so maybe I'm biased.
    EXACTLY! Why couldn't they have taken a test immediately instead of bitch and whine because they were suspects.
    John Ramsey had friends in high places, no doubt, but more importantly they had money, and lots of it. It worked in their favour.

  8. #113
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    she did wet the bed that night. Her soiled clothes were found soaking in water in her bathroom. Her bed had fresh urine on it - (she wet the bed that night.)
    You guys should really read all the info at that other site I linked - all the facts are there.

    In my opinion, she had pineapple with her mom when she got home, went to bed - wet the bed, mum found out, went ballistic, perhaps threw her onto the toilet and she hit her head on the wall/cistern. They believed she was dead/brain damaged so staged the crime to look like an intruder. Patsy wrote that stupid ransom note.

    The Whites have only ever acted like normal innocent people would. I believe they figured out that the Ramseys killed her and covered it up and so broke off their friendship with them. I really don't believe they had anything to do with it.

    Also Patsy had anger management problems - she was going through cancer treatment which can make you really negative and short tempered.

  9. #114
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    Wow. I read the whole Nancy Krebs interview and holy shit and it makes me sick. Just thinking that if everything she says is true, and maybe that is what was going on with JonBenet, and how she was murdered..maybe the poor little girl is better off, than living through her parents letting other people have sex with her and stuff..assuming that is what was going on.

    I don't know if that was what was going on with JonBenet, but I can't say I don't beleive Nancy Krebs, it seems like alot of what she is saying is well documented with her therapist.

    Sasha, you definitely do a great job with your research on this too bad you weren't one of the detectives working on this case, maybe there would be some justice for this poor little girl.

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    Thank you, queenb.

    Frankly, it wouldn't have done any good if had been a detective on the case. The DA at the time, Alex Hunter, took Nancy seriously and it seemed he should have been able to steer the investigation in that direction but he was unable to do so. Something happened to derail that line of inquiry and you can probably guess what it was-these people were high-powered movers and shakers and there was no way they were going to allow this can of worms to be opened.

    Quote Originally Posted by powerorchid
    The Whites have only ever acted like normal innocent people would.
    Not really:

    A Jefferson County district judge sentenced Fleet White Jr. to 30 days in jail today for ignoring a subpoena in connection with a case related to the JonBenet Ramsey homicide.

    White, a former friend of the Ramseys, took off his suit coat and tie and was handcuffed and led away to jail.

    The Boulder man pleaded guilty earlier today to indirect contempt of court charges for failing to appear as a witness in the criminal trial of Thomas C. Miller. Miller, also of Boulder, was accused of bribery in connection with an alleged attempt to buy a copy of the ransom note in the JonBenet homicide. He was cleared at trial in June.
    Last edited by Sasha; July 12th, 2008 at 09:29 AM.

  11. #116
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    Don't know very much about this case, I have to say, but it's very compelling reading all these posts in this thread. Sasha, you seem to know a lot about it. Does anyone know if the White's home was ever searched? I thought there was blood everywhere in the room where she was supposedly murdered. How could there have been much blood if she was murdered @ the White's christmas party?
    Last edited by AllieCat; July 12th, 2008 at 09:49 AM. Reason: spelling

  12. #117
    Elite Member qwerty's Avatar
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    The Ramseys used to live a mile or 2 away from me in the early 2000s. I bumped into her once at the Home Depot. I felt bad for her. Her body language was very defensive and guarded. Can't say I blame her. To deal with the grief of losing your child, the media firestorm, the public indictment and the legal crap would be too much for most of us to bear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllieCat View Post
    Don't know very much about this case, I have to say, but it's very compelling reading all these posts in this thread. Sasha, you seem to know a lot about it. Does anyone know if the White's home was ever searched? I thought there was blood everywhere in the room where she was supposedly murdered. How could there have been much blood if she was murdered @ the White's christmas party?
    No, there was no blood at the scene at all. If you'll go back up a few posts and click the link "Dr. Cyril Wecht" who is a well known forensic examiner, you will see that the head wound produced almost no blood-about a teaspoon.

    Link to crime scene photos <<This page does not contain anything gross, but scroll down and you can see the actual spot where poor little JonBenet was found. There is no blood.

    I can find no evidence that a search warrant was ever issued for the White home.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    The Ramseys used to live a mile or 2 away from me in the early 2000s. I bumped into her once at the Home Depot. I felt bad for her. Her body language was very defensive and guarded. Can't say I blame her. To deal with the grief of losing your child, the media firestorm, the public indictment and the legal crap would be too much for most of us to bear.
    You know what? I have some sympathy for Patsy as well. She was caught up in something that was well beyond her control.

    The child sex cults/pedophile rings are male dominated. I say "cult" only in the sense that cult-like techniques are used to control their victims, not in the "religious" sense of the word, at least not in the Ramsey case. Patsy's mother Nedra Paugh once made the comment that JonBenet was "only abused a little bit" referring to the evidence of sexual assualt in her autopsy. What! This tells me that the attitudes of that family toward molestation were very strange indeed. If you read the material on the multi-generational child sex cults you come to understand that the males only marry female victims, so they are free to continue to victimize without having to "inculcate" an adult woman into these "activities".

    Resources:

    One Two

    Snippet from this site:


    Ritual Abuse (includes Organised Satanic Abuse): Ritual abuse usually involves repeated abuse over an extended period of time. The physical abuse is severe, sometimes including killing and torture. The sexual abuse is usually painful, sadistic, and humiliating, and intended as a means of gaining dominance over the victim. The psychological abuse is devastating and involves the use of ritual indoctrination. It includes mind control techniques, which convey to the victim a profound terror of the cult members and of the evil spirits they believe cult members can command. Both during and after the abuse, most victims are in a state of terror, mind control and dissociation. This definition is found in the 1989 report by the Ritual Abuse Task Force of Los Angeles County Commission for Women.
    Satanic cults, in which members worship Satan, are only one of the types of cults that torture and abuse children. Note: Perpetrators are both male and female.
    There are other cults, which commit similar crimes, whose practices are not connected to Satanism. These are organised perpetrator groups and paedophile rings etc.
    Many therapists, law enforcement, judges, and lawyers including some of the general public prefer to believe that these survivors are suffering from hallucinations.
    Many survivors are born and raised by parents who are in cults (multi-generational).
    Many survivors cope with the severity of the trauma by developing Dissociative Identity Disorder (D.I.D.) formerly know as Multiple Personality. Note: This does not apply in every case.
    Cult abuse does occur outside the family in school or pre-school settings, including the recruitment of street kids etc.
    Cult abuse survivors have to deal with brainwashing, severe intimidation, isolation, extreme humiliation, starvation, forced drug experiences, extreme torture, child pornography, prostitution, and being forced to witness or participate in ritual murder. (Keep this bolded part in mind as I intend to get back to you on another aspect of the case which could throw a whole new light on why JBR was killed-Sasha)
    Many who escape the cult (many do not) have to deal with hypnotic suggestions which tell them to commit suicide, go crazy, or return to the cult.
    Mind Control is the cornerstone of ritual abuse. The methods above are used to silence survivors by creating amnesia surrounding the events, places, dates and names of perpetrators, in order to protect the cult. These brainwashing techniques are also known as programming.
    The level of terror that cult survivors experience is usually greater than that of other abuse survivors. This is the deepest level of abuse of the mind, body and soul. Cult experiences are horrifying and can seem unbelievable. Believing the abuse happened is crucial, as disclosure is extremely difficult for cult survivors.

  15. #120
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    The Ramseys used to live a mile or 2 away from me in the early 2000s. I bumped into her once at the Home Depot. I felt bad for her. Her body language was very defensive and guarded. Can't say I blame her. To deal with the grief of losing your child, the media firestorm, the public indictment and the legal crap would be too much for most of us to bear.
    She really loved that child. If her husband had done it,I promise she would have nailed his ass. Neither one of them had a thing to do with it. Twisted "fact" are not proof. That is why they were cleared. They are innocent. Totally. The cold case people are now trying to match that DNA sample with other persons already interviewed.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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