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Thread: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch
    I posted an article a while back on this very subject (it may have been on an older version of the board). And it did state that unwanted children are more likely to become victimized and thus become victimizers themselves. I look for it and if I find it, I'll post it.
    That is if the biological parent(s) keep the child. I'm talking about adoption, where a loving family raises the child.

  2. #47
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Who's to guarantee the adoptive family is loving?
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

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  3. #48
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by dexter7
    whoa, completely wrong definition of zygote. no one aborts a zygote, which is the cell that is created when the sperm and egg fertilize eachother. you are aborting an embryo or a fetus. zygote of course sounds less personal, but that term is being extremely and incorrectly used.

    and, the reason that a person is sentenced to death is because he knowingly committed a violent, horrible crime.
    I never stated that a zygote was what was being destroyed in an abortion. If you consider that life/pregnancy begins with the fertilized egg and not with its implantation, then it is possible to *miscarry* a zygote. It actually probably happens more than most women know of...since preventing the liklihood of ovulation is only one line of defense with the use of oral contraceptives. It's actually not even an embryo until at least 2-3 wks after conception. It's not even uncommon nowadays to be aware of a pregnancy at such an early stage.
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch
    Who's to guarantee the adoptive family is loving?
    Ok, I'll give you that. I'm just saying that if a family goes through the rigorous adoption process and costs associated with it, chances are they want that child very badly. There are abusive adoptive parents, just like there are abusive biological parents. I don't have statistics in front of me, but I would venture a guess that the majority of adoptive parents are nurturing and loving. I welcome anyone to provide statistics to prove me wrong.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    Ok, I'll give you that. I'm just saying that if a family goes through the rigorous adoption process and costs associated with it, chances are they want that child very badly. There are abusive adoptive parents, just like there are abusive biological parents. I don't have statistics in front of me, but I would venture a guess that the majority of adoptive parents are nurturing and loving. I welcome anyone to provide statistics to prove me wrong.
    Even this does not mean that they'll be good parents. Good parenting or not, there are no guarantees period. However, I believe the former gangster in prison for the rest of his years having denouced the life that got him there and working to to influence others away from it is far more effective preventative measure, punishment for the criminal, and example of something good coming out of something horrible than killing him for the sake of the family's revenge. I don't even see how that last thing can be debated. For the Christians out there...do you believe that this guy could go to heaven?
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  6. #51
    Elite Member dexter7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch
    I posted an article a while back on this very subject (it may have been on an older version of the board). And it did state that unwanted children are more likely to become victimized and thus become victimizers themselves. I look for it and if I find it, I'll post it.

    do you have any idea on how many "accidental" and unwanted pregnancies there are out there? almost all the people i know that have kids did not want to be pregnant or have a baby when they did. a study that goes and looks at "unwanted children" would not contain the parents that didn't want to have a child but then turned around and felt that their baby was the best thing that happened to them. it would contain people that describe themselves as currently having unwanted children. i would venture to say that half of the people at gossip rocks were conceived as an "unwanted" pregnancy.

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    Elite Member dexter7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch
    Who's to guarantee the adoptive family is loving?
    again, this can be seen both ways. who is to guarantee the the biological family of any baby is loving? just because a baby is given up for adoption doesn't mean he or she has any better/worse chance than a biological baby has for a loving family.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark
    Even this does not mean that they'll be good parents. Good parenting or not, there are no guarantees period. However, I believe the former gangster in prison for the rest of his years having denouced the life that got him there and working to to influence others away from it is far more effective preventative measure, punishment for the criminal, and example of something good coming out of something horrible than killing him for the sake of the family's revenge. I don't even see how that last thing can be debated. For the Christians out there...do you believe that this guy could go to heaven?
    Your definition of good parenting and mine may be totally different. I'll agree with you there are no guarantees. I'll answer your last question...in my opinion, based on the teachings from my church, to be forgiven for your sins, you must first recognize that you committed a sinful act and then ask God to forgive you. All the information I have read regarding this man points out the fact that he never admitted his guilt, much less apologized to the families. He may, however, have confessed to God and asked forgiveness in a private manner. Long story short, if he turned his life over to Christ and asked forgiveness, then I think he had a chance to get into heaven. If he didn't, the he's crispy right now.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    An accidental or unintended pregnancy is not even the same as a completely unwanted one. Even if circumstances are such that it takes a bit of time for one to be excited about a pregnancy that was unintended. My own son was not intended, but we couldn't have been happier. However, I'd be devastated at a pregnancy that occurred from rape. Even more so now that I have experienced a pregnancy conceived in a loving relationship.
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    Your definition of good parenting and mine may be totally different. I'll agree with you there are no guarantees. I'll answer your last question...in my opinion, based on the teachings from my church, to be forgiven for your sins, you must first recognize that you committed a sinful act and then ask God to forgive you. All the information I have read regarding this man points out the fact that he never admitted his guilt, much less apologized to the families. He may, however, have confessed to God and asked forgiveness in a private manner. Long story short, if he turned his life over to Christ and asked forgiveness, then I think he had a chance to get into heaven. If he didn't, the he's crispy right now.
    Thanks for answering that. But there is no way of knowing any of this about this man. If you believe in God as his ultimate judge, and the only one who can know what's in this man's heart, I still don't see how you can find it the place of others to decide the fate of his existence beyond keeping him exiled from the rest of society.
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark
    Thanks for answering that. But there is no way of knowing any of this about this man. If you believe in God as his ultimate judge, and the only one who can know what's in this man's heart, I still don't see how you can find it the place of others to decide the fate of his existence beyond keeping him exiled from the rest of society.
    You are absolutely right, I do believe God is his final judge. But, you asked what we Christians thought, and I gave you my opinions.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Fair enough. It's my opinion that if you believe in even the possibility that one such as this man could repent and be in heaven that killing him is unjustified and immoral and a sin. Even if could be argued that he deserved it.
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark
    Fair enough. It's my opinion that if you believe in even the possibility that one such as this man could repent and be in heaven that killing him is unjustified and immoral and a sin. Even if could be argued that he deserved it.
    Repenting may qualify him for an eternity in heaven, however, because of the laws set forth on earth, he must pay his dues to society for those crimes. If everyone did whatever they wanted, without any thought of what might happen to them, we would have a society of utter chaos and destruction. Laws are in place to deter that, and for those who chose to ignore those laws, there are consequences. In this scumbag's case, he was executed. He was of able mind and body to commit the crimes and knew he could be put to death for it, yet he did it anyway. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    Unbelievable. Then I certainly wouldn't expect you to grieve if you or your spouse ever has a miscarriage, since it wasn't a person.
    I would grieve for the person who had the miscarriage, but I would not grieve for the "child" lost, since to me it wasn't yet a child or a baby. It could have become one, but it hadn't yet.

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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark
    Why unbelievable? It does not mean that this same person could not grieve for what might have been, had the miscarriage been from a pregnancy where a future child was wanted and loved. Would you be evil or a horrible person if you were relieved when a miscarriage occurred with a pregnancy created by rape? Very unfairly judgemental conclusion. There's no question that technically a living cell is *life*, but an embryo is not the same thing as a human, even if you choose to give it the same value as one. Do you extend this respect for living cells only to human ones? Not if you support capital punishment and government sanctioned killing.
    Thank you, I was going to say the same thing. You're on fire lately!

    People are sad when they miscarry because of what might have been, IMO. To me, that little bundle of cells was a potential person, not a person.

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