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Thread: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

  1. #16
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Rizzo
    Great post, MrsDark. I see why people are opposed to the death penalty. But I somehow can't feel bad for people like euro mentioned, in fact I'll be glad when he's dead. I'm a very spiteful person!!!! But I also think the death penalty is an easy way out. I think rotting in prison until the day you die is more unfavorable.

    I don't know how I stand on the death penalty. I'm a flip flopper just like the man I voted for!!!
    Oh man...those kid torturer/killers are precisely a reason why I am on the fence! Those fucks definitely deserve to die a slow and painful death. I can't fathom how one could go about doing something like that to a child and then be rehabilitated without feeling like he deserved to die and offing himself anyway.
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  2. #17
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    I am just VERY against capital punishment because it is not a perfect system, and it is greatly flawed. So many innocent people have died in which it was found later they did not commit the killing crimes they were charged for.

    As for killing murderers,I do not know how I feel about it, I am split in the middle. I just think about if someone killed a family member of mine...I'd want them dead.But then again, it would not bring back the loved one of mine that got killed. I feel that the capital punishment of admitted and convicted murderers doesn't change a thing-it is more of a perpetual cycle. So, I say,let them rot in prison and throw away the key.That is more of a sufferance than them dying peacefully by lethal injection.

    But then again, do murderers who are reformed deserve forgiveness?I don't know.

  3. #18
    Silver Member simone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    There have to be consequences for actions, regardless of whether or not you offer some sort of retribution to society. Unless you're mentally challenged, you should be aware of these consequences before you act. Period. I agree with what many of you have said: not only did he foster violence, and probably was either directly or indirectly for killing many more people than 4 people, he founded one of the most dangerous, heartless gangs, and purportedly showed no remorse for the killings.

    I believe that if it makes the victims' families feel better, or at least get a bit of peace, satisfaction, whatever from the execution, then their wishes should be honored in the names of the victims. I've read some statements by some victims' family members after executions have been carried out, and they seemed to have found some peace through the process, so I can't really judge what's best for them. Of course, the slow, painful death thing should be an option/be on the table, especially for pedophiles/child murders, because these people possess and have acted upon quite possibly the purest form of evil.
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  4. #19
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Murder is murder, whether it is state sanctioned or committed by gang members. The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill." It doesn't make exceptions for murderers or pedophiles.

    No civilized nation still has the death penalty on its books. The U.S. executes nearly as many of its own citizens as Nigeria, South Africa and Algeria, but not as many as China -- yet. Studies over the years haved proved beyond a doubt that the death penalty does not deter capital murder.

    You don't teach people not to kill by killing. Violence breeds more violence. Killing criminals to make victims' families "feel" better may play politically, but it's not much more than vengeance, however justifiable it may seem. Having been a victim of violent crime myself, I fully understand the rage, the sorrow and the pain of it all. But I still don't condone killing.

    The record of sloppy convictions for capital murder cases is so bad in the U.S. that the governor of Illinois ordered a halt to all executions. I'm sure his state is not an exception.

    There's an old saying in the law: better that 100 guilty men go free, than one innocent man hang. I believe that. Tookie would have spent the rest of his life in jail -- it wasn't like he was going to be sipping daiquiris in the Caribbean somewhere. At least alive, he could do some good, and he would still be punished for his crimes.

    What has been accomplished by his death?

  5. #20
    Silver Member euro-kitty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill."
    It also says "an eye for an eye"

    I'm sorry but when you rape and murder and 11 year old child and they have you on video leading her away and your stupid enough to admit what you did to your mother and brother in taped phone calls made from prison (he told his brother where to find the body so that he could get the reward money for his own kids!) you deserve to fucking die.Period.

  6. #21
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Killjoy
    Some say he made retributions and was a changed man. I believe if that was the truth then God will be his judge not man but if he is still found wanting then he will burn in hell.

    I believe in capital punishment and I'm sorry but I would rather one innocent person die then 100 guilty go free.

    And personally if we dealt w/ criminals more severely I think we would have less crime. You steal something, your hand gets cut off or you get branded. I guarantee they will not be doing that again. You kill someone and you are found standing over the body with a gun, knife, saw, etc...in your hand, BAM!!!! shot on the spot. Keeping criminals in prison for years is a waste of money and manpower. Let's go back to the chain gangs.
    Wpuld you still feel this way(one innocent vs 100 guilty) if the innocent who dies is your husband/mother/father/child??????

  7. #22
    Gold Member piperdiva's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita
    Wpuld you still feel this way(one innocent vs 100 guilty) if the innocent who dies is your husband/mother/father/child??????
    Exactly. want to see what he did?

    http://www.johnandkenshow.com/

    Scroll down to the bottom. *warning* nsfw-graphic
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  8. #23
    Elite Member calendargurl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    letting people sit in jail for the rest of their lives is a big waste of taxpayers money and other resources. and who cares if the person has reformed? it doesn't change the fact that they still killed someone. they should all receive punishment equal to that which they comitted. people that oppose the death penalty are saying "hey yea we know he chopped off 20 people's heads but don't kill him...let's let him sit in a nice air-conditioned prison cell with digital cable and a fully equipped gym at their leisure for their rest of their lives." screw that. they don't deserve that much kindness.

  9. #24
    Elite Member dexter7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze
    Murder is murder, whether it is state sanctioned or committed by gang members. The Bible says "Thou shalt not kill." It doesn't make exceptions for murderers or pedophiles.

    No civilized nation still has the death penalty on its books. The U.S. executes nearly as many of its own citizens as Nigeria, South Africa and Algeria, but not as many as China -- yet. Studies over the years haved proved beyond a doubt that the death penalty does not deter capital murder.

    You don't teach people not to kill by killing. Violence breeds more violence. Killing criminals to make victims' families "feel" better may play politically, but it's not much more than vengeance, however justifiable it may seem. Having been a victim of violent crime myself, I fully understand the rage, the sorrow and the pain of it all. But I still don't condone killing.

    The record of sloppy convictions for capital murder cases is so bad in the U.S. that the governor of Illinois ordered a halt to all executions. I'm sure his state is not an exception.

    There's an old saying in the law: better that 100 guilty men go free, than one innocent man hang. I believe that. Tookie would have spent the rest of his life in jail -- it wasn't like he was going to be sipping daiquiris in the Caribbean somewhere. At least alive, he could do some good, and he would still be punished for his crimes.

    What has been accomplished by his death?
    this is off topic and not something i am going to turn into a debate, but the above stated opinion (which many people share) confuses me. most people who feel strongly about getting rid of the death penalty are strongly for abortion. in my non-abortion loving mind, i don't get why or how viscious, murdering, and truly evil people, are given a second chance, or maybe just given their whole life to live behind bars, while millions of innocent, unborn children are routinely sacrificed with nary a word from most anti-death penalty people. why is the focus on saving scumbags more important then trying to save something that is truly without evil? because they lived long enough to do others harm? i just don't get it.

  10. #25
    Gold Member ohmygoodness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by calendargurl
    letting people sit in jail for the rest of their lives is a big waste of taxpayers money and other resources. and who cares if the person has reformed? it doesn't change the fact that they still killed someone. they should all receive punishment equal to that which they comitted. people that oppose the death penalty are saying "hey yea we know he chopped off 20 people's heads but don't kill him...let's let him sit in a nice air-conditioned prison cell with digital cable and a fully equipped gym at their leisure for their rest of their lives." screw that. they don't deserve that much kindness.
    Actually, it costs more to have an execution than it does to put someone in prison for life.

    And dexter: For me at least, I'm against capital punishment and for abortion. I don't see aborted pregnancies as people.

  11. #26
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by dexter7
    this is off topic and not something i am going to turn into a debate, but the above stated opinion (which many people share) confuses me. most people who feel strongly about getting rid of the death penalty are strongly for abortion. in my non-abortion loving mind, i don't get why or how viscious, murdering, and truly evil people, are given a second chance, or maybe just given their whole life to live behind bars, while millions of innocent, unborn children are routinely sacrificed with nary a word from most anti-death penalty people. why is the focus on saving scumbags more important then trying to save something that is truly without evil? because they lived long enough to do others harm? i just don't get it.
    Not to get off-topic here, but I don't think anybody, even pro-choice, could be considered abortion-loving. The only thing I can imagine worse than having to consider an abortion is having that decision over the fate of my own body and well being already made for me by another.

    This fully formed, autonomous, reformed adult person has already done more for the world than an unwanted embryo/fetus being considered for abortion, which often has a much greater than average chance of turning into a human being such as this criminal you'd have put to death.
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygoodness
    And dexter: For me at least, I'm against capital punishment and for abortion. I don't see aborted pregnancies as people.
    Unbelievable. Then I certainly wouldn't expect you to grieve if you or your spouse ever has a miscarriage, since it wasn't a person.

  13. #28
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita
    Wpuld you still feel this way(one innocent vs 100 guilty) if the innocent who dies is your husband/mother/father/child??????
    I can understand this sentiment. But my need for retribution/revenge should not outweigh the fact that two wrongs do not make a right. If murder is wrong we're a society of hypocrites. And only kidding ourselves to imagine that we are actually civilized...when we are not that far removed from what they historically consider, *barbaric times*.

    Had this guy Tookie joined another organization whose leader deemed a particular segment of people *the ememy* (i.e. the military) and killed 4 people who had lives and families, he might even be given a medal of honor. Or at the very least, the killings would be deemed casualties of war.

    The biggest difference to me between a guy like Tookie who got caught up in the life that he did and ended up murdering and a guy like the one who raped and killed the 11 yr old girl is: If you were to take Tookie, with everything he has learned and become since his incarceration, back to the time and place of his crimes and offer him the chance to rewrite his life, there's no way in hell he would repeat the same behavior. I don't even think that it would be a case of him not wanting to go to jail and face execution. I truly believe that if given another chance, he would follow another path because he now knows the one that includes a life of killing and committing other crimes is morally wrong. However, with this Olivera guy, if you put him back in the same situation/scene of his not-yet-committed crime....even knowing what the future holds....I think he would still commit this crime, and even that he probably would not be able to stop himself from committing this crime again even if he wanted to. If he did anything different, it would propbably be something in order to better avoid detetction or capture.
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  14. #29
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    As someone already said, killing is wrong, whether it's state-sanctioned or not. Is it really teaching people that killing is wrong by killing the killer?
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    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Crips Gang Co-Founder Executed in California

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    Unbelievable. Then I certainly wouldn't expect you to grieve if you or your spouse ever has a miscarriage, since it wasn't a person.
    Why unbelievable? It does not mean that this same person could not grieve for what might have been, had the miscarriage been from a pregnancy where a future child was wanted and loved. Would you be evil or a horrible person if you were relieved when a miscarriage occurred with a pregnancy created by rape? Very unfairly judgemental conclusion. There's no question that technically a living cell is *life*, but an embryo is not the same thing as a human, even if you choose to give it the same value as one. Do you extend this respect for living cells only to human ones? Not if you support capital punishment and government sanctioned killing.
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