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Thread: Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than dozen dead

  1. #121
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Today is NOT the day for the gun control bullshit from either side. I have no doubt that his emotions are real today. I saw total strangers in the grocery start to cry as the TV at the front of the store was updating the story. There was no HYPE in their reactions.
    au contraire. today is precisely the day. just like it was in july when that guy with a legal arsenal shot up a movie theatre full of people, and the US was in the middle of arms trade treaty negotiations at the UN, and hours after all those people died, the head of the US delegation had the gall to say 'guns can be good' to a room full of delegates who just looked at her like 'are you fucking serious?'


    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Oh, it's never the time.
    exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    And the common denominator is............. Angry, unstable young men with easily/legally obtained firearms.
    let's blame video games instead. or facebook.
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  2. #122
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    It's being reported now that the gunman is, in fact, Adam Lanza not Ryan Lanza.
    That's what Ryan's been saying all day.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Poor guy, really.
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  4. #124
    Elite Member angelais's Avatar
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    From Washingtopost.com

    12 FACTS ABOUT GUNS AND MASS SHOOTINGS


    When we first collected much of this data, it was after the Aurora, Colo. shootings, and the air was thick with calls to avoid “politicizing” the tragedy. That is code, essentially, for “don’t talk about reforming our gun control laws.”
    Let’s be clear: That is a form of politicization. When political actors construct a political argument that threatens political consequences if other political actors pursue a certain political outcome, that is, almost by definition, a politicization of the issue. It’s just a form of politicization favoring those who prefer the status quo to stricter gun control laws.
    Since then, there have been more horrible, high-profile shootings. Jovan Belcher, a linebacker for the Kansas City Chiefs, took his girlfriend’s life and then his own. In Oregon, Jacob Tyler Roberts entered a mall holding a semi-automatic rifle and yelling “I am the shooter.” And, in Connecticut, at least 27 are dead — including 18 children — after a man opened fire at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
    If roads were collapsing all across the United States, killing dozens of drivers, we would surely see that as a moment to talk about what we could do to keep roads from collapsing. If terrorists were detonating bombs in port after port, you can be sure Congress would be working to upgrade the nation’s security measures. If a plague was ripping through communities, public-health officials would be working feverishly to contain it.
    Only with gun violence do we respond to repeated tragedies by saying that mourning is acceptable but discussing how to prevent more tragedies is not. “Too soon,” howl supporters of loose gun laws. But as others have observed, talking about how to stop mass shootings in the aftermath of a string of mass shootings isn’t “too soon.” It’s much too late.
    What follows here isn’t a policy agenda. It’s simply a set of facts — many of which complicate a search for easy answers — that should inform the discussion that we desperately need to have.
    1. Shooting sprees are not rare in the United States.
    Mother Jones has tracked and mapped every shooting spree in the last three decades. “Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their weapons legally:

    2. Eleven of the 20 worst mass shootings in the last 50 years took place in the United States.
    Time has the full list here. In second place is Finland, with two entries.
    3. Lots of guns don’t necessarily mean lots of shootings, as you can see in Israel and Switzerland.*
    As David Lamp writes at Cato, “In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel ‘have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States.’”
    *Correction: The info is out-of-date, if not completely wrong. Israel and Switzerland have tightened their gun laws substantially, and now pursue an entirely different approach then the United States. More details here. I apologize for the error.
    4. Of the 11 deadliest shootings in the US, five have happened from 2007 onward.
    That doesn’t include Friday’s shooting in Sandy Hook, Connecticut. The AP put the early reported death toll at 27, which would make it the second-deadliest mass shooting in US history.
    5. America is an unusually violent country. But we’re not as violent as we used to be.
    Kieran Healy, a sociologist at Duke University, made this graph of “deaths due to assault” in the United States and other developed countries. We are a clear outlier.
    As Healy writes, “The most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the U.S. is than other OECD countries (except possibly Estonia and Mexico, not shown here), and (2) the degree of change—and recently, decline—there has been in the U.S. time series considered by itself.”
    6. The South is the most violent region in the United States.
    In a subsequent post, Healy drilled further into the numbers and looked at deaths due to assault in different regions of the country. Just as the United States is a clear outlier in the international context, the South is a clear outlier in the national context:
    7. Gun ownership in the United States is declining overall.
    “For all the attention given to America’s culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows,” writes political scientist Patrick Egan. The decline is most evident on the General Social Survey, though it also shows up on polling from Gallup, as you can see on this graph:
    The bottom line, Egan writes, is that “long-term trends suggest that we are in fact currently experiencing a waning culture of guns and violence in the United States. “
    8. More guns tend to mean more homicide.
    The Harvard Injury Control Research Center assessed the literature on guns and homicide and found that there’s substantial evidence that indicates more guns means more murders. This holds true whether you’re looking at different countries or different states. Citations here.
    9. States with stricter gun control laws have fewer deaths from gun-related violence.
    Last year, economist Richard Florida dove deep into the correlations between gun deaths and other kinds of social indicators. Some of what he found was, perhaps, unexpected: Higher populations, more stress, more immigrants, and more mental illness were not correlated with more deaths from gun violence. But one thing he found was, perhaps, perfectly predictable: States with tighter gun control laws appear to have fewer gun-related deaths. The disclaimer here is that correlation is not causation. But correlations can be suggestive:

    “The map overlays the map of firearm deaths above with gun control restrictions by state,” explains Florida. “It highlights states which have one of three gun control restrictions in place – assault weapons’ bans, trigger locks, or safe storage requirements. Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.48).”
    10. Gun control, in general, has not been politically popular.
    Since 1990, Gallup has been asking Americans whether they think gun control laws should be stricter. The answer, increasingly, is that they don’t. “The percentage in favor of making the laws governing the sale of firearms ‘more strict’ fell from 78% in 1990 to 62% in 1995, and 51% in 2007,” reports Gallup. “In the most recent reading, Gallup in 2010 found 44% in favor of stricter laws. In fact, in 2009 and again last year, the slight majority said gun laws should either remain the same or be made less strict.”

    11. But particular policies to control guns often are.
    An August CNN/ORC poll asked respondents whether they favor or oppose a number of specific policies to restrict gun ownership. And when you drill down to that level, many policies, including banning the manufacture and possession of semi-automatic rifles, are popular.

    12. Shootings don’t tend to substantially affect views on gun control.
    That, at least, is what the Pew Research Center found:
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  5. #125
    Elite Member Fly_On_TheWall's Avatar
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    I can't stop thinking about those poor babies, still laying where they were shot.I hope they get them out of there soon.
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    I can't imagine the agony the parents are going through knowing their childrens' bodies are still in the school. It is terrifying to think what those children went through in their last moments.

    There has been so much bad reporting on this story. For example, Nancy Lanza, according to different stories, is a kindergarten teacher/teacher's aide/volunteer/staff have never heard of her, have no idea who she is. She was killed at the school, but wait she was killed at home.

    This "We need to be FIRST!" nonsense has ruined so many media stories and caused a lot of misinformation.
    Last edited by lizzybabe; December 14th, 2012 at 09:07 PM.
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    I can't stop thinking of those poor parents.
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    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    Regardless of my own opinion on gun laws, I really don't think that's the answer, because if someone's crazy and determined, they'll find a way to execute their plan, and that could be a bomb.

    The common demoninator in all these shootings is the shooter/killer was mentally unstable, and no one did anything about it. I am concerned with the mental health stigma in this country. If you go to counseling, or see a therapist, makes you a "weak" person, and an admission of failure. When in actuality, I see you as being a weak person if you don't get help for something that you know is an issue. I bet the mom had signs that her son has issues, but ignored or disregarded them because she thought it wasn't that bad, or thought she could handle it. We need change the perception of mental health and provide better access to help.
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    Elite Member Seapharris7's Avatar
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    I didnt go to work today... I knew something was wrong (this was 4 am CST). The SO was worried... I was restless. I cleaned virtually everything in my apartment, called my X (who has my spawn) to make sure my son & he was ok. Everyone around thought I was a freak, or freaking out because because of my depression.... I feel asleep after my sisters, step monster, & dad made it to work (government facility) which I did not make it too, said they got there ok... Woke up to this news.
    I couldnt stop crying... way too close to spawn's age. I havent stopped crying all day... this, somehow, is tragic. Maybe it's innocence lost, parents not knowing if their babies are ok, the shooter & family... fucking tragic... and that's because I dont get emotional over anything... I'm so sad.
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  10. #130
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    Oh my fucking God.

    Right-wing, Bible-thumping conservatives blaming a damn video over this tragedy?



    My faith in humanity has plummeted a couple of notches.

  11. #131
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Oh, it's never the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    au contraire. today is precisely the day. just like it was in july when that guy with a legal arsenal shot up a movie theatre full of people.
    exactly. people say 'now isn't the time' every time there is a shooting. and after the fact, no discussion, and the gun violence repeats itself. this is the second shooting like this in a week. what better way to show the victims that we care, that they didn't die in vain and that we will do whatever we can to try to prevent it from happening again than to have a serious national discussion and action.

    As for the President's emotions, I'm sure he was saddened. I don't see how anyone could see this and not be. But when you're in a position to lead on an issue and don't, and then profess horror when it happens again and again and again, you're full of shit. Instead of tears I'd like some moral courage.

    80 percent of all gun deaths are American deaths and 87 percent of all kids killed by guns are American kids. There's something deeply wrong.
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  12. #132
    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    The common demoninator in all these shootings is the shooter/killer was mentally unstable, and no one did anything about it. I am concerned with the mental health stigma in this country. If you go to counseling, or see a therapist, makes you a "weak" person, and an admission of failure. When in actuality, I see you as being a weak person if you don't get help for something that you know is an issue. I bet the mom had signs that her son has issues, but ignored or disregarded them because she thought it wasn't that bad, or thought she could handle it. We need change the perception of mental health and provide better access to help.
    I dunno...it's easy to blame the parents, but the truth is, once a mentally ill person reaches adulthood, there's not much anyone can do if they don't want to seek help. Getting someone declared incompetent, into treatment, forcing them to take their meds, not an easy task. Many just fall through the cracks.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Capt. Mark Kelly, the husband of Gabrielle Giffords, the former Arizona congresswoman shot in the head last year, wrote on Facebook:

    As we mourn, we must sound a call for our leaders to stand up and do what is right. This time our response must consist of more than regret, sorrow, and condolence.The children of Sandy Hook Elementary School and all victims of gun violence deserve leaders who have the courage to participate in a meaningful discussion about our gun laws – and how they can be reformed and better enforced to prevent gun violence and death in America. This can no longer wait.
    Brookie likes this.
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  14. #134
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    I saw some psychiatrist on one of the news channels (lord it might have been Fox, I don't remember) who said that we're all so "self-entitled" in this country and that we all need to take responsibility for ourselves which I completely agree with, but then she said that basically it was up to the mentally disturbed person to seek help for himself. In a perfect world, that would be great, but how the hell can people ask for help when they are only capable of having the shallowest idea, if any, that they're different from other people? I think some sociopaths and psychopaths do realize they're different, but they're not exactly the most reflective people in the world. I agree that there has to be something we can do to catch these psychiatric issues at a younger age.

    angelais, that article was very interesting, thanks for posting it.
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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    My God....we're out of town, taking a few days off and I had no idea this happened until a couple hours ago. It's simply awful. We heard it on the radio while we were driving through such a beautiful and majestic area. I just started crying. As soon as we stopped, I grabbed my little girl and gave her the biggest hug. I'm so heartbroken for these poor children and their parents. This is senseless.

    I, too, believe it's time to do something about guns. Yes, if someone wants to kill someone, they'll find a way but it's a hell of a lot harder to kill a classroom full of children with a knife.

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