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Thread: Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than dozen dead

  1. #376
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    David Letterman spent close to seven minutes of Monday's Late Show broadcast addressing the senseless shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., that took the lives of 20 first-graders and a half-dozen adults.

    Returning from commercial, the host, looking visibly saddened, noted the beauty of the Christmas decorations on the Late Show set.

    "It makes me so sad," Letterman began. "They're really for kids. You think about this horrifying circumstance. What part of that do you think about that's going to make any difference? Do you think about the kids in the class? That's too awful to think about."

    He continued: "Do you think about the parents and their friends and getting that message from the school and finding out that their lives are irrevocably broken, ruined? You think about your own kid. I take him to school every now and then. Are we supposed to be worried about dropping our kids off at school now? I never worried about it before. I always thought, 'Well, here -- school -- is a good place where my son will be free of the idiot decisions made by his father."

    Letterman then addressed the topic of guns and mental health -- two problematic areas that have become the focus of a fiery public debate over policy reform.

    "Believe me, I'm not dumb enough to think that this is a problem of guns," Letterman said. "Before there were guns, people were killing one another. And you can't just say that it's mental health or emotional problems because people with all manner of problems don't necessarily kill each other."

    But citing a document prepared by the show's researchers, Letterman did go on to acknowledge some frightening statistics about firearms.

    "Since 1994, there have been 70 episodes of school shootings, [all] after the Brady Bill had passed [in 1993]," he said. "Good Lord, does that surprise you?"

    Letterman acknowledged that listening to President Barack Obama speak to the Newtown community at Sunday night's memorial made him "feel a little bit better about the situation."

    "He's going on the record, [taking] some kind of action," he said. "In a small measure, I feel better that he's looking out for us in that regard. It's a sad, sad holiday season."
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  2. #377
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    my nerdy ex shared this on facebook, it's from a friend of his. i thought it was mucho interesting:



    I have been responding to posts by others about the link between policy (jn this case gun policy) and gun violence, and I decided to do a bit of my own checking on this, to make sure I was right about this link. The graphic below relates gun violence (deaths per 100,000) vs. gun ownership (guns per 100). Now if you look closely, you will see that I have restricted the data to the 47 countries with an Human Development Index of > .73, or "very high" according to UNDP (more here:List of countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). All the data comes from public sources, see List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    The link is very clear between these - and look where the US sits here. The use of HDI to group countries into similar groups, where guns have a similar impact on violence, is worth considering, but it is clearly a better metric than GDP (for all sorts of reasons).

    Happy to share the data if anyone wants to play with it further

    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    I dunno, we had one down here after the Port Arthur massacre, it cost a fair chunk of taxpayer money but most people supported it and considered it money well spent.
    gun buyback programmes are popular, for sure. but i still don't think that means they're effective.
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  3. #378
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I thought Witchcurlgirl's posted article was pretty good.

    I think it is useful to think about the person who feels so desperately lonely and isolated and self hating that they lash out at others - vs. the person who is paranoid and delusional and acts lethally based on that.

    Solomon also made the observation that Nancy Lanza unwittingly provided the "tools" for Adam Lanza to act out in such a horrific way. I think he said something about not blaming her - maybe in not being able to foresee that Adam would use these weapons to strike out in this way. I still hold her hugely culpable, though, in being an enabler in that she knew her son was troubled and she stockpiled a huge amount of lethal crap around her house. That is on her. At this point, it seems like she bought every bit of it, including the ammo. WTF was Nancy Lanza thinking as she bought hundreds of rounds of ammo specifically designed to do more damage than the average bullet, along with high-velocity magazines for them. In my mind, nothing will mitigate my feelings toward Nancy Lanza in this, and I think that what we will find out even more negative stuff about her beliefs as time goes on.

    In terms of what we can salvage from Adam's behavior and beliefs -- I think it was particularly telling that he destroyed his hard drive before he left the house. Just the fact that he destroyed it implies that he had something to hide or something about himself that he didn't want people to learn. I think it would have been very valuable for psychologists or psychiatrists to see what was on their and, based on timestamps, see a chronology of his beliefs and potentially plans and "justification" for what he did.

    ETA - you guys maybe saw this already. Very touching. It reminds me of the really close friends that my son already has at his age and the photos we have of them together - really hits close to home:

    Last edited by MohandasKGanja; December 19th, 2012 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #379
    Elite Member Butterfly's Avatar
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    Maybe they should take down the signs that say "Gun Free Area" and crap like that...They don't do anything but advertises that there are a lot of people here that can't protect themselves.

    Maybe if these maniacs think that there is someone that can stop them and take them in alive they would think twice. The POS coward offed himself as soon as the cops showed. He didn't have enough balls to shoot at the cops. Didn't the columbine shooters also kill themselves when the cops showed up?

    And no, I don't think we should start arming teachers or anything like that. At my son's school they have security guards and at the public schools they have police that patrol. Do I think this makes the school 100% safe? No, but it might help deter the crazy fuck.
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  5. #380
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly View Post
    Maybe they should take down the signs that say "Gun Free Area" and crap like that...They don't do anything but advertises that there are a lot of people here that can't protect themselves.

    Maybe if these maniacs think that there is someone that can stop them and take them in alive they would think twice. The POS coward offed himself as soon as the cops showed. He didn't have enough balls to shoot at the cops. Didn't the columbine shooters also kill themselves when the cops showed up?

    And no, I don't think we should start arming teachers or anything like that. At my son's school they have security guards and at the public schools they have police that patrol. Do I think this makes the school 100% safe? No, but it might help deter the crazy fuck.
    Some people are theorizing that he targeted the elementary school because the local high school actually did have a guard, while the elementary did not. It seems like traditionally the HS security guard was to protect the students from each other. Now, the paradigm shift will be that all schools will need a guard to defend against enemies inside and out.
    laynes likes this.

  6. #381
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    "Believe me, I'm not dumb enough to think that this is a problem of guns," Letterman said. "Before there were guns, people were killing one another.
    But it is a problem of guns. Why is it so hard to see that? There are always going to be troubled people, but if they don't have access to an arsenal of weapons they can't do as much damage. I don't want to offend any Americans but it seems to be an ingrained part of your psyche that's hard to get through. Americans love their guns but the rest of the world (for the most part - I'm generalising but look at the statistics) think they're shit scary and don't form a part of normal society. It's the culture of "guns are wonderful but not in the wrong hands" but how the fuck are guns wonderful? They're designed to kill.
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  7. #382
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    But it is a problem of guns. Why is it so hard to see that? There are always going to be troubled people, but if they don't have access to an arsenal of weapons they can't do as much damage. I don't want to offend any Americans but it seems to be an ingrained part of your psyche that's hard to get through. Americans love their guns but the rest of the world (for the most part - I'm generalising but look at the statistics) think they're shit scary and don't form a part of normal society. It's the culture of "guns are wonderful but not in the wrong hands" but how the fuck are guns wonderful? They're designed to kill.
    If you look at surveys that have been published lately, you can see that gun rights groups and PR flacks have managed to shift the nature of the conversation here such that by saying "we need to control guns" you look like some kind of week-kneed liberal reactionary. And with 300 million guns in circulation here, it seems like the task of reining in the availability of guns is futile.

    I saw that the NRA is going to have a press conference on Friday. I am very curious to see what the nature of their theme will be. I am very cynical in that they will craft a brilliant statement that will consist of us once again not really doing anything, and if we do do something, it will have a bunch of loopholes in it that will result in even looser restrictions than before (like what happened with rules about ownership of guns by the mentally ill).

  8. #383
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    how many could that damned kid kill if he had a knife?if he could lay his hands on a missile he could wipe out the town..i am a very peaceful person but there were times if i had a gun handy i could have taken a life..
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  9. #384
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by effie2 View Post
    how many could that damned kid kill if he had a knife?if he could lay his hands on a missile he could wipe out the town..i am a very peaceful person but there were times if i had a gun handy i could have taken a life..
    Probably almost none. As I posted earlier, a Chinese guy attacked kids in a school on the same day that Adam Lanza did. Last I read, NONE of the 23 kids he attacked had died.

  10. #385
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    there you go..
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  11. #386
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I saw that the NRA is going to have a press conference on Friday. I am very curious to see what the nature of their theme will be.
    I'm thinking it will be along the lines of 'the house is on fire. we need more fire'.



    My grandfather and uncles were all longstanding members of the NRA until the early 80's (My grandfather was even the NRA's NY State rapid fire rifle champion for many years, and a long term instructor). They left when the NRA became a more political group, rather than a group for actual sport shooting/hunters.
    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Default Residents of Newtown Want the Media to ‘Leave Us the Fuck Alone’

    It's been less than a week since Adam Lanza shot and killed 20 children and six adults at an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, but local residents are already fed up with the media circus tent that's enveloped their once-peaceful community.

    So much so that town's people have apparently taken to posting "no media" and "no press" signs around Newtown, according to a report by Digital First Media.

    "We need you to help us beg people to stop calling the victims," a local business owner told reporter Adrienne LaFrance. "They're in mourning. Someone actually pounded on a friend's door and, literally, they were shouting, 'Someone in this town has to start talking to us, this is our story.' That's how we're being treated."

    Many Newtowners descended on the Facebook page of the Newtown Bee to share stories of harassment by members of the media.

    "The phone calls from 7am-11pm need to stop," wrote Christine Wilford. "And coming to my doorstep was completely out of line. LEAVE US ALL ALONE."

    The sentiment was shared, albiet more bluntly, by a local bar patron who complained to LaFrance that reporters were stalking residents. "It's like, fuck you," he said. "Go away. Leave us the fuck alone."

    In an unconfirmed anecdote, another Bee reader claims a CBS news crew member falsely identified herself as a friend of a grieving mother in order to get a quote. "She came with a plant and so we let her on the property only to find out she was with the news," says Eileen Byrnes. "Some of these people just don't have a soul."

    The Bee itself, meanwhile, appealed directly to "colleagues and journalist," asking them to keep their distance from the victims. "We acknowledge it is your right to try and make contact," the Bee said in a statement, "but we beg you to do what is right and let them grieve and ready their funeral plans in peace."

    Residents of Newtown Want the Media to 'Leave Us the Fuck Alone'
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  13. #388
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    ^that sounds about right to me. Let the people grieve. We all know what happened, there is no new information to be gleaned from the people of Newtown. People need to be able to breathe.

    Quote Originally Posted by JazzyGirl View Post
    I posted briefly last night and just wanted to clarify. THe post was not directed at anyone here. the posts on gun control here are intelligent, thoughtful and have supporting data. I also am very aware that this is an international community and many have been affected by tragic events close to them. This one happens to be close to me.

    I had been watching a few interviews about gun control and seriously wondered how these people were brought up. There was a casualness in speaking about the rght to own multi round capacity assault weapons,and i have been hearing shit like "we need more guns" and "teachers need guns" (which I have since learned is an actuality Texas. Wrapping my brain around that one). I blew up. I needed to put it down somewhere..too many idiots on facebook. Anyway - thanks for letting me vent I needed to get that anger out - this was a safe place to do it.
    I understand what you mean. To be honest, I can't listen to or read any of the comments about arming teachers and students. It's beyond comprehension to me and I know if I go read that stuff I'll be ranting, too. I don't even get the so-called logic in it. If a teacher has a gun, would they have to wear it on them in a holster? That's the only way it would possibly help in a situation like this. And, it's not like it takes much to disarm a person if you're an intruder hellbent on doing so. All of it is ridiculous and so absurd, it gives me a headache just to think about it.
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  14. #389
    Elite Member JazzyGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterslide View Post
    If a teacher has a gun, would they have to wear it on them in a holster? That's the only way it would possibly help in a situation like this. And, it's not like it takes much to disarm a person if you're an intruder hellbent on doing so. All of it is ridiculous and so absurd, it gives me a headache just to think about it.
    It boggles the mind - and I saw an interview with a male teacher in Texas who has a liscense to carry a concealed weapon...and does so...in school. I just wanted to spit.

    I saw a few of those "no press" and "no media" signs. Although I thought they were on the doors of the churches, I could be wrong. The evening I was there paying my respects it was between 6:30 and 7pm. Seemed like the press was gearing up for live broadcasts - we were leaving the main memorial area and was jostled by a broadcaster vying for a position - he turned to me rather horrified and said "I am so sorry to have disturbed you." He was very genuine.

    And concerning "more guns" who here made the point about the Fort Hood incident? Can you find more guns anywhere else? And yet it still occurred.
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  15. #390
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzyGirl View Post
    It boggles the mind - and I saw an interview with a male teacher in Texas who has a liscense to carry a concealed weapon...and does so...in school. I just wanted to spit.

    I saw a few of those "no press" and "no media" signs. Although I thought they were on the doors of the churches, I could be wrong. The evening I was there paying my respects it was between 6:30 and 7pm. Seemed like the press was gearing up for live broadcasts - we were leaving the main memorial area and was jostled by a broadcaster vying for a position - he turned to me rather horrified and said "I am so sorry to have disturbed you." He was very genuine.

    And concerning "more guns" who here made the point about the Fort Hood incident? Can you find more guns anywhere else? And yet it still occurred.
    In all honesty, arming teachers is a nonstarter. Burly police officers get disarmed, and we are going to give a person who probably trains to "Jazzersize" a side piece that a troubled child could probably take away during some kind of confrontation? Quite frankly, I think it could lead to more shootings in school, and not less.

    I could see assigning an armed security guard to a school, and give them the side job of monitoring the surveillance and access control systems there, along with performing regular drills with the teacher in incident response.
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