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Thread: Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than dozen dead

  1. #316
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    But again, they're not the baddest lobby there is and all your contorting won't make it true.
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  2. #317
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    I think the NRA has a lot of power because it seems no one will stand up to them and very few mainstream candidates want to rock the NRA boat. The minute guns or gun control is mentioned that candidate is as good as done. They may not be the most powerful, but people hardly get as up in arms over Pharma.

  3. #318
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    It's what the right is absolutely spectacular at - framing the conversation. The NRA has power because they are perceived to be a republican supporter (which was really odd in the most recent election because Romney had actually signed an assault weapons ban bill and other restrictions and Obama signed a bill allowing us to arm ourselves in National Parks and on Amtrak). The right is far superior at staging the conversation. You mention "gun" and "control" within 20 minutes of each other and Fox and Co. are howling about 2d Amendment rights and they're coming to take our guns (oh my). Because the left has allowed the right to have first crack at defining the conversation, there are huge hurdles to jump before anyone can have a real conversation. I don't know if the NRA is the most powerful lobby, but every candidate for office gets an NRA rating and for some voters it's one of the defining aspects of the candidacy. I don't often seem a pharmaceutical rating or a agribusiness rating. Even if they're are not the most powerful, they are certainly one of the most public lobbies and the have a strong perception of power. But jeez, they're just like a school yard bully, they can't have power unless others don't exercise their own.
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  4. #319
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    The NY Times has a story about how after the VA Tech mass murder shooting that the NRA intervened to actually make it easier for people with mental disabilities to get guns, or restore their right to own them once they lost them.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/us/03guns.html?_r=0#h[]

    A handful of states have had such restoration laws on their books for some time, but with little notice, more than 20 states have passed similar measures since 2008. This surge can be traced to a law passed by Congress after the 2007 massacre at Virginia Tech that was actually meant to make it harder for people with mental illness to get guns.
    As a condition of its support for the measure, the National Rifle Association extracted a concession: the inclusion of a mechanism for restoring firearms rights to those who lost them for mental health reasons.
    The intent of these state laws is to enable people to regain the right to buy and possess firearms if it is determined that they are not a threat to public safety. But an examination of restoration procedures across the country, along with dozens of cases, shows that the process for making that determination is governed in many places by vague standards and few specific requirements.
    States have mostly entrusted these decisions to judges, who are often ill-equipped to conduct investigations from the bench. Many seemed willing to simply give petitioners the benefit of the doubt. The results often seem haphazard.
    At least a few hundred people with histories of mental health issues already get their gun rights back each year. The number promises to grow, since most of the new state laws are just beginning to take effect. And in November, the Department of Veterans Affairs responded to the federal legislation by establishing a rights restoration process for more than 100,000 veterans who have lost their gun privileges after being designated mentally incompetent by the agency.

  5. #320
    Elite Member Fly_On_TheWall's Avatar
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    I'm so sick of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Shit. That's what they always fall back on. This time that isn't gonna cut it. Go to hell NRA!

  6. #321
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Just because the NRA isn't the number one on that list, it doesn't negate their heavy influence.
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  7. #322
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karistiona View Post
    Just because the NRA isn't the number one on that list, it doesn't negate their heavy influence.

    But it negates that article. It started with a fallacy and then ran on for miles trying to justify it.
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    Elite Member JadeStar70's Avatar
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    Even if they make stricter guidelines or bans, only the law abiding citizens will follow the rules. Crazy people, criminals and hard core gun owners won't. Not sure what the answer or solution is for all the violence. Just since this shooting, I have read of about 25 other killings across the US involving 2 or more people.
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  9. #324
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Such is the nature of the media, everything these days is sensationalised. That doesn't mean there's not good information and analysis in there.
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  10. #325
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karistiona View Post
    Such is the nature of the media, everything these days is sensationalised. That doesn't mean there's not good information and analysis in there.
    Of course it does, because trying to justify a lie negates anything you have to say. Its only fair to hold liberals to the same standards we hold Fox News.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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  11. #326
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JadeStar70 View Post
    Even if they make stricter guidelines or bans, only the law abiding citizens will follow the rules. Crazy people, criminals and hard core gun owners won't. Not sure what the answer or solution is for all the violence. Just since this shooting, I have read of about 25 other killings across the US involving 2 or more people.
    Well, theoretically, Nancy Lanza, was a law-abiding citizen who purchased her guns legally, so wouldn't it be great if we all jumped in the Way Back Machine and wrote a law that dissuaded her from buying the weapons that cut down 26 lives?
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  12. #327
    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Well, theoretically, Nancy Lanza, was a law-abiding citizen who purchased her guns legally, so wouldn't it be great if we all jumped in the Way Back Machine and wrote a law that dissuaded her from buying the weapons that cut down 26 lives?
    Exactly. I was trying to find the source, but I either read it or watched it on tv over the last few days, anyway most of these mass killings occur with guns and ammo that were purchased legally.

  13. #328
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    So were the materials that Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh purchased. Still are actually. The simple fact of the matter is, if people want to kill masses of people, a way will be found. Do guns make that easier? Probably, but eliminating guns will not stop it. There is no reason in hell a citizen needs to have access to assault rifles. We aren't allowed to own a tank, so there's no reason to own assault rifles either, but to try to eliminate guns entirely is just ridiculous. Either way, mass killings will still happen and with the same frequency.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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  14. #329
    Elite Member JadeStar70's Avatar
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    I was just meaning that I, as a law abiding citizen, would turn over my gun if there was a law telling me to do so. Not everyone would. So I am not sure what type of gun control can ever be done to stop acts like this happening. Personally,...I think law abiding citizens should be able to bear arms, but that is just my opinion. There will be crazies that will kill or hurt others with any means they have available.

  15. #330
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    So were the materials that Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh purchased. Still are actually. The simple fact of the matter is, if people want to kill masses of people, a way will be found. Do guns make that easier? Probably, but eliminating guns will not stop it. There is no reason in hell a citizen needs to have access to assault rifles. We aren't allowed to own a tank, so there's no reason to own assault rifles either, but to try to eliminate guns entirely is just ridiculous. Either way, mass killings will still happen and with the same frequency.
    I do think guns make it too easy. For example, take what happened in China on exactly the same day. A crazy guy goes into a Chinese school and attacks a class full of kids with a knife. The victims are approximately the same age as Lanza's, but there are now 23 injured children instead of 23 dead children.

    I'm not sure it's either practical or desirable to eliminate guns. However, I think we, as a country, are fixated on what it means to "infringe" people's rights. I don't think keeping guns out of the hands of unstable people is infringement. Or that saying you can't own more than two or so low-velocity, low capacity guns is infringement. However, a lot of gun rights people think it is. And no amount of dead children or massacre victims is going to convince them otherwise. In their view, it's Groundskeeper Willy's fault for not packing heat along with his mop bucket and tool belt.
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