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Thread: Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than dozen dead

  1. #256
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm still very curious to know what was going through his head as he somehow formulated an idea that he had to shoot up a classroom full of little kids. Was it revenge for his treatment when he was in the school system? What kind of resentment might his mom have fed him with on a regular basis as to why he was home and going nowhere in life while he his brother was successful. Did she basically shift all the blame to others (teachers, other kids, the administrators) and he eventually externalized all of it in one insane murderous blaze of glory? It would be useful to know stuff like this in terms of preventing future acts, but the two people who had the information are both dead.
    I think even if we 'know' we won't really ever know. For most of us knowing what he claimed drove him would still leave our 'normal' brains puzzled about how his disturbed brain made the logic chains/connections that internally rationalized what he did.
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  2. #257
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, in this case neither gun control or access to mental health would have been effective in preventing this tragedy. I think the mother was in serious ass denial about the state of her son, and anyone that stated otherwise, was cast out of their life as she enabled and shielded him from everyone.

    What is someone to do if you suspect someone is a whack job? There's nothing that can be legally done til a crime's been committed. I friend had a suspicious guy on their street that everyone thought was crazy and nothing happened til he starting firing shots within (and outside) his house, then the cops came and put him in an inpatient program, but that was only temporary, and he ended up moving, so who knows where that loony fucker is right now. But you can't call the cops, and say, "This dude up the street is fucking strange." If so, I'm sure someone would have called about me a long time ago!
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  3. #258
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I think even if we 'know' we won't really ever know. For most of us knowing what he claimed drove him would still leave our 'normal' brains puzzled about how his disturbed brain made the logic chains/connections that internally rationalized what he did.
    I don't know. Serial killers have weird ideas that most people can't relate to - but knowing what they thought, and their "rationale" for acting, helps psychologists and the police put together profiles that help accelerate the process of catching them. Similarly, it would be useful to know whether Adam Lanza "organically" cooked up the idea in his head that he needed to shoot up a school because his brain had gone so haywire he was having paranoid delusions, or conversely, he felt socially isolated because of his condition and was harboring animosity (like the kid who shot up VA Tech) that boiled over and led him to lash out at other people. I don't think information like that is ever not useful.

    By the way, I had no idea that this was a bushmaster. It makes me even angrier at Adam Lanza's mom and more suspicious that the crazy ran down her side of the family tree:


  4. #259
    Elite Member Waterslide's Avatar
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    One of my facebook friends, on the day of the shooting, said that she was going to unfriend anyone who started shit by using the tragedy as a platform to bitch about gun laws, because to do so would only be self-serving for people on both sides of the argument. She's got a large, diverse set of facebook friends not made up of gun-waving, NRA-member, Tea Partying idiots and she's not a histrionic "I don't want to hear anything bad" kind of person either. She's just a normal, intelligent, no-nonsense person. She did say that she wasn't holding anyone's opinions against them in any way. Just an hour before the shooting, she was actually having a discussion about gun control with some friends, but she didn't like the tone of where it was going after the news came out. I can kind of see where she's coming from.

    Absolutely, gun laws should be talked about, and yes things need to change. But why is it that every time we talk about anything in this country, it always has to be in terms of absolute extremes? Either everyone is Ted Nugent or no one should ever own a gun ever. No one can calm the fuck down and talk rationally, and all these discussions deteriorate into a war of internet memes with out-of-context slogans and smug righteousness and that is getting us nowhere.

    I would like to think that this tragedy could have been prevented, but sometimes we take that sentiment too far. There are more people blaming guns for this than the EVIL asshole who did it. He was evil, he killed 20 children and 6 adults. I'm too cynical to pin the blame for this entirely on guns. Maybe it is the guns. Maybe it is the violent TV, movies, music and video games. Maybe it's our negligent healthcare and educational systems. Maybe it's bad parenting. But more than likely, it's a combination of all these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    The gun issue absolutely needs to be addressed, already. I'd like to mention something else, though. There's lots of talk about recognizing mental illness, getting people help, funding, etc. I'm the biggest proponent of state funding for the mentally ill, as well as giving more ability for temporary commitments and all. But from what I've seen so far, this guy was most likely a fucking sociopath. Some might not agree with the distinction, but it's not really a mental illness; it's a personality disorder. There is no treatment for it. If it's diagnosed, those people probably should just be humanely segregated from the rest of society. But of course, that'll never happen. So, it's back to guns because there will always be murderous assholes.
    I agree. I mentioned that maybe mental health screening should be mandatory for school age kids, thinking it could be a safety net to catch sociopaths. But then, like you said what do you do with them once it's diagnosed? That just opens up a million other questions that I could never imagine tying to answer.
    Last edited by Waterslide; December 17th, 2012 at 01:12 PM.
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  5. #260
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    On one hand, I can see what you're saying sput, and I'm definitely one who is curious what the fuck makes people do something like this. Especially if it's in the interest of preventing something like this from happening again. But on another hand, after a weekend deluge of this crap, I didn't miss hearing the name "Adam Lanza" when they gave a half minute update on the radio before moving on to something else. I didn't even think about the fact that they didn't mention his name until it was mentioned that they didn't, and frankly I didn't give a fuck. There's more than enough info on this asshole everywhere else if I want it. I'm sort of sick of this whole "do some crazy/heinous shit, gain notoriety and fame" game, even though I know it's unrealistic not for it to happen. I wish someone had paid a fraction as much attention to this jackass and his nutjob mother beforehand.

    So yeah, I'm sure I'll read all about the story as it unfolds. I wouldn't be shocked if there weren't red flags all over the place. And even though we own guns and I grew up with them, I agree that nobody needs a motherfucking assault rifle. Unlike 99.9% of people where I live, I don't think I'd give too much of a shit if guns were banned. I always felt safer having one, but honestly see actually needing one for protection a very last resort. I'm not allowed to carry one for my job anyway, and that's probably where I'm at the most risk. I've gone hunting, shooting, taken my kid shooting, went over gun safety, etc. It's pretty run-of-the-mill here. He'd definitely be able to identify gunshot sounds if he heard them. Not sure what difference that this would make if something like this went down at his school.

    Oh, and I'm definitely in agreement that it's beyond stupid not wanting to call the victims 'victims'. That's exactly what they were.

    And this religious bullshit is driving me up a tree. If I hear anything else about 'god no longer being allowed in schools' as the reason for this I think I'm gonna scream.
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  6. #261
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    I think there are a couple of very easy simple steps that would at least move us off the stance that any reasonable control of gun ownership is off limits. 1) the assault weapons ban, there is not a reason in the world to have private ownership 2) close the gun show loophole, in fact, I'd be happy if they shut down gun shows completely. They operate outside of the law.

    The easiest comparison is to put the same regulatory obligations on gun ownership as we have on vehicles. No one thinks the country is coming after their very constitutional existence because we are required to title, register, insure and be taxed on our vehicles. There should be a liability insurance requirement. In order to be licensed to drive, you have to take a written test, a practical test, have medical clearance, eyesight clearance, renew your license and it is subject to forfeiture for myriad reasons - and those rights to own and/or drive a car are given by the government (oh the horror).

    I just do not understand why the right to bear arms cannot withstand reasonable restrictions and that it trumps the right to be alive. Guns exist for one purpose - to kill something or someone - why is that our most sacred and protected right?
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    Elite Member JadeStar70's Avatar
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    Such a devastating tragedy. I can not even fathom what those parents are going through right now. Same for the family, friends and other people in that small town. Prayers don't seem like enough some days,...but it is all I can offer them from here.

  8. #263
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I don't know. Serial killers have weird ideas that most people can't relate to - but knowing what they thought, and their "rationale" for acting, helps psychologists and the police put together profiles that help accelerate the process of catching them. Similarly, it would be useful to know whether Adam Lanza "organically" cooked up the idea in his head that he needed to shoot up a school because his brain had gone so haywire he was having paranoid delusions, or conversely, he felt socially isolated because of his condition and was harboring animosity (like the kid who shot up VA Tech) that boiled over and led him to lash out at other people. I don't think information like that is ever not useful.
    I don't think the information isn't useful from a professional pov, but I don't think the average layperson is going to be able to 'understand', and really have insight into why they do it. Although I'm sure many will think they do. Armchair shrinks.




    In addition to the screwed up media coverage, I'm very disturbed by a certain part of the public that heavily contributes to this- there a type of person that really seems to wallow in other's tragedy, and wants all this sensationalistic coverage for some type of sick voyeurism. It fills some need in them.

    Guns, mental illness, are definitely factors in this. But also, we are a violent nation and culture. We kill on a daily basis, we are surrounded by violent images both real and fictional constantly, have been at war in some form or another almost my entire life. Those things all play a role, even indirectly.
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  9. #264
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Guns, mental illness, are definitely factors in this. But also, we are a violent nation and culture. We kill on a daily basis, we are surrounded by violent images both real and fictional constantly, have been at war in some form or another almost my entire life. Those things all play a role.
    Yes we are. For ex, violent death is perfectly okay to show on TV, but tits and sex are evil. There's a recipe for good mental health, huh?
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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    Putting the issue of guns aside for just a moment, I also think it's high time we discuss mental illness is our society and in our children. I've mentioned here before that my mother used to work for a school board/district in my home state. She has since retired but would always talk about the issue of mental or emotional problems in children and how no one would ever want to address it. Parents, law makers, school board members, etc. Especially parents. She would say if a child with a physical disability would come to the school, the parents would come to the school and make sure that everything would be accessible to their child. That there would be ramps and special buses, special classes for phys ed, someone to assist their child to and from classes, etc. If there was a child with a mental or emotional type of disability, the problem would be denied and not addressed. Basically just swept under the rug. Parents fearing that their children would be labeled for the rest of their lives instead of worrying about getting the help that they needed. My mother had dealings with a child who would tell her that it wasn't him that was bad, it was this other "person" that made him bad and told him to do bad things. He was in first grade when he told my mother that he was going to kill his teacher, the principal and the guidance counselor. This kid would get sent home for a few days, his parents would fight it and he would come back. The cycle would repeat in a few days.

    We can't ignore this anymore. A mental illness needs to be dealt with just as you would deal with a physical illness. It's just as important, if not more.

  11. #266
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    You're getting predictable in crucifying Obama for every damned thing, including not having committed political suicide over and over.
    To you it may be 'crucifixion', to me it's just calling out blatant hypocrisy. tomato, tomahto. ~shrugs~ I'll call that out on any politician that does it.

    Now that he's been re-elected, and can be less worried about 'political suicide', maybe he'll step up.

    If not, at least we can look forward to some more nice speeches. Like the ones given after Arizona, the Sikh temple in Wisconsin, Aurora.....


    The President’s concessions to the “guns anywhere” mentality of the gun lobby and lack of leadership for common-sense gun laws has earned him a grade of “F”.

    President Obama signed legislation letting people carry concealed weapons in national parks and in checked luggage on Amtrak trains, adopted the gun lobby’s empty rhetoric about just “enforcing the laws on the books,” and muzzled Cabinet members who expressed support for stronger gun laws.

    In addition, the White House voiced no objection to people carrying guns near Presidential events and his White House staff removed statements from the White House website that declared support for gun violence prevention laws.

    http://www.bradycenter.org/reports/b...ts/obamareport
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    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    There was a gun show in the area this weekend so all the local news stations were there talking to the gun enthusiast who were buying guns for Christmas. It's just crazy.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Hey, who doesn't want an AK-47 with the extra large magazine and armor piercing shells for Christmas? Isn't that what Christmas is really all about. It's the reason for the season.
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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    ^^There was one here this past weekend, too. Of course, the comments they were all making were the standard comments. One, guns don't kill people (soooooo fucking sick of that one) and two, if the teachers, custodians, principals, etc. were armed, this wouldn't have happened.

  15. #270
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisNine View Post
    ^^There was one here this past weekend, too. Of course, the comments they were all making were the standard comments. One, guns don't kill people (soooooo fucking sick of that one) and two, if the teachers, custodians, principals, etc. were armed, this wouldn't have happened.

    That always kills me.

    Really people? You think you'd be able to keep your head with bullets flying, people screaming and take out your target with the precision of a machine without hurting anyone?

    Trained soldiers frequently kill by friendly fire, cops in general only hit the perp 50% of the time when they fire. But every asshole seems to think they'd be accurate. Having to return fire against an armed person is quite a bit different than target range shooting.
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