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Thread: Connecticut school shooting: Reports say more than dozen dead

  1. #196
    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchywoman View Post
    What kind of a role model is this for a child?




    CT Mass School Shooting Suspect's Mom Was Gun Enthusiast, Taught Him To Shoot: Gothamist

    “They went target shooting as a family,” Holmes also told The Daily News. “That was a passion. The whole family would go together.” It's unclear where those other three weapons came from, but NBC reports that Lanza went to a Dick's Sporting Goods store in Danbury on Tuesday to buy a rifle, but was turned down because he didn't want to undergo a background check or abide by the state's waiting period for gun sales.
    According to the Post, Nancy Lanza was a gun enthusiast who often took her son shooting with her. “She'd take them to the range a lot…Nancy was an enthusiast—so much so that she wanted to pass it on to her kids,” said her former landscaper and "occasional drinking buddy" Dan Holmes. “She took her two sons to the gun ranges quite a bit to practice their aim. She was a really great shot from what she told me. Whenever I finished work and went inside to chit chat, she spoke often about her fascination with firearms. Nancy had an extensive gun collection and she was really quite proud of it.”

    The NY Times talked to more friends and neighbors about Nancy Lanza, with some calling her an upbeat, participating member of the community (who would go to Labor Day picnics and ladies' nights out); others said she was a woman dealing with a difficult son and maintaining a public face “with uncommon grace.” Interestingly, none of those people could say what she did for a living. “She was really kind and warm, but she always seemed a little bit high-strung,” said Jim Leff, a musician who knew her from hanging out at local restaurant and music spot, My Place.

    More story and a photo of the mother at the link above.
    Seriously? There is nothing wrong with a parent taking their grown child target shooting. There is nothing wrong with someone teaching their children gun responsibility. Guns are legal and it appears from this article anyway that she was doing things the right way. My friend's Father is a Cop and taught her how to shoot when she was in HS. He also taught her gun safety, etc. It's nice that we just immediately judge someone because they are gun enthusiasts. There are a lot more responsible gun owners than raving lunatics. This kid was bad. Maybe he had personality disorder, maybe he was on drugs? But blaming his mother for being a bad role model based solely on the fact that she took her kids to the shooting range is irresponsible. If it wasn't a gun, he would have used something else. He is the bad guy.. he is to blame.



  2. #197
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    MrsDark- I read that the father hadn't seen him for a year, and his brother hadn't seen him since 2010. But I've read a lot of things about this case that turned out to be complete BS, so who knows.

  3. #198
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with the activity of target shooting. I wonder more about the atmosphere of fear and paranoia generated by someone preparing for doomsday. That would even be rough for a totally sane person to live in.

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  4. #199
    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Nothing wrong with the activity of target shooting. I wonder more about the atmosphere of fear and paranoia generated by someone preparing for doomsday. That would even be rough for a totally sane person to live in.
    Totally fair statement. But I'd like to believe an adjusted person would tell his Mother she's crazy...not shoot her in the head. The whole thing makes me sick..and does it make me an evil person if I hope that next time one of these crazies wants to go on a spree they target the Westboro Baptist Church?



  5. #200
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    I think there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing your deeply troubled child access to guns and then teaching them how to be really good with them. That is just idiotic in an age where we have already seen what smart but troubled guys like the AZ and Aurora shooters have done with access to guns. Bad mom.
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  6. #201
    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I think there is something fundamentally wrong with allowing your deeply troubled child access to guns and then teaching them how to be really good with them. That is just idiotic in an age where we have already seen what smart but troubled guys like the AZ and Aurora shooters have done with access to guns. Bad mom.
    Isn't it still speculation and hearsay that he had a personality disorder or was on the Autism Spectrum? Have we seen proof yet from a Dr.? I've literally read everything from people being "shocked, because he was quiet, nice, and smart" to people who weren't shocked and thought he was a weirdo, etc. I just can't believe half the crap the media prints seeing as they have gotten so much of it wrong. Obviously it's easier to think that he had a mental illness b/c we don't want to believe that someone can just go bad. I've just read so much speculation and opinion, it's hard for me to go there yet.

    But certainly if he had given her indication that he was a psychopath, then yes, bad Mom. But a Parent taking an "adjusted" child to the shooting range is not a bad role model IMO.
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  7. #202
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    I agree Mohandas. Teaching your mentally disturbed child how to shoot a gun and (maybe) filling his mind with crazy ideas about the world ending seems a recipe for disaster if there ever was one!
    MohandasKGanja and Butterfly like this.

  8. #203
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    December 14, 2012
    NEWTOWN AND THE MADNESS OF GUNS
    Posted by Adam Gopnik





    After the mass gun murders at Virginia Tech, I wrote about the unfathomable image of cell phones ringing in the pockets of the dead kids, and of the parents trying desperately to reach them. And I said (as did many others), This will go on, if no one stops it, in this manner and to this degree in this country alone—alone among all the industrialized, wealthy, and so-called civilized countries in the world. There would be another, for certain.


    Then there were—many more, in fact—and when the latest and worst one happened, in Aurora, I (and many others) said, this time in a tone of despair, that nothing had changed. And I (and many others) predicted that it would happen again, soon. And that once again, the same twisted voices would say, Oh, this had nothing to do with gun laws or the misuse of the Second Amendment or anything except some singular madman, of whom America for some reason seems to have a particularly dense sample.


    And now it has happened again, bang, like clockwork, one might say: Twenty dead children—babies, really—in a kindergarten in a prosperous town in Connecticut. And a mother screaming. And twenty families told that their grade-schooler had died. After the Aurora killings, I did a few debates with advocates for the child-killing lobby—sorry, the gun lobby—and, without exception and with a mad vehemence, they told the same old lies: it doesn’t happen here more often than elsewhere (yes, it does); more people are protected by guns than killed by them (no, they aren’t—that’s a flat-out fabrication); guns don’t kill people, people do; and all the other perverted lies that people who can only be called knowing accessories to murder continue to repeat, people who are in their own way every bit as twisted and crazy as the killers whom they defend. (That they are often the same people who pretend outrage at the loss of a single embryo only makes the craziness still crazier.)


    So let’s state the plain facts one more time, so that they can’t be mistaken: Gun massacres have happened many times in many countries, and in every other country, gun laws have been tightened to reflect the tragedy and the tragic knowledge of its citizens afterward. In every other country, gun massacres have subsequently become rare. In America alone, gun massacres, most often of children, happen with hideous regularity, and they happen with hideous regularity because guns are hideously and regularly available.


    The people who fight and lobby and legislate to make guns regularly available are complicit in the murder of those children. They have made a clear moral choice: that the comfort and emotional reassurance they take from the possession of guns, placed in the balance even against the routine murder of innocent children, is of supreme value. Whatever satisfaction gun owners take from their guns—we know for certain that there is no prudential value in them—is more important than children’s lives. Give them credit: life is making moral choices, and that’s a moral choice, clearly made.


    All of that is a truth, plain and simple, and recognized throughout the world. At some point, this truth may become so bloody obvious that we will know it, too. Meanwhile, congratulate yourself on living in the child-gun-massacre capital of the known universe.


    Photograph by Douglas Healey/Getty.


    See our full coverage of the Newtown shooting.


    Read more: Newtown and the Madness of Guns : The New Yorker
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    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  9. #204
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laynes View Post
    Isn't it still speculation and hearsay that he had a personality disorder or was on the Autism Spectrum? Have we seen proof yet from a Dr.? I've literally read everything from people being "shocked, because he was quiet, nice, and smart" to people who weren't shocked and thought he was a weirdo, etc. I just can't believe half the crap the media prints seeing as they have gotten so much of it wrong. Obviously it's easier to think that he had a mental illness b/c we don't want to believe that someone can just go bad. I've just read so much speculation and opinion, it's hard for me to go there yet.

    But certainly if he had given her indication that he was a psychopath, then yes, bad Mom. But a Parent taking an "adjusted" child to the shooting range is not a bad role model IMO.
    Not hearsay that this kid was troubled. The stories are mounting and coming from friends, neighbors and family. Bad mom - and apparently slightly troubled herself.
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  10. #205
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by laynes View Post
    . I just can't believe half the crap the media prints seeing as they have gotten so much of it wrong.
    It's really incredible just how much in the reporting of this story has been wrong.

    -the shooter was misidentified
    -they said his father and another family member had been killed at home
    -they claimed his mother was a teacher at the school
    -the mother was killed at the school
    -the principal let him into the school because she recognized him
    -the children were called kindergarteners
    -his brother drove him to the school and was an accomplice
    -the rifle was in the car
    -his girlfriend and another friend were missing

    There's probably more. No accountability either.
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    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

    -- Stephen Hawking

  11. #206
    Gold Member laynes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Not hearsay that this kid was troubled. The stories are mounting and coming from friends, neighbors and family. Bad mom - and apparently slightly troubled herself.
    Hadn't heard that about the Mom..but admittedly I've tried to stop listening to anything except the Police Briefings. Of course everyone comes out of the woodwork AFTER the massacre. If people were really concerned or scared, why didn't someone get him help? As for the Mom, maybe she didn't want to admit it to herself that he was that bad as that has to be horrifying for a parent. Or if she herself was really troubled, then it was just a toxic combo.

    And Twitchy.. that's incredible. I won't be holding my breath waiting on them to take accountability either.



  12. #207
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    So the dad remarried and moved away. Wonder if he had shit to do with this kid afterward? Other than throwing money.

    Not that any of this excuses what the fuckball did. But I don't give a fuck what people say about his parents being great, wonderful, nuturing people...they obviously had other things going on rather than noticing their little shit was going psycho.
    yeah, like the mother being a doomsday prepper nut job who probably instilled her already disturbed son with a sense of paranoia about the economy collapsing and how you have to prepare for that by, among other things, stockpiling guns and turning your house into a fortress?

    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Nothing wrong with the activity of target shooting. I wonder more about the atmosphere of fear and paranoia generated by someone preparing for doomsday. That would even be rough for a totally sane person to live in.
    This.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    It's really incredible just how much in the reporting of this story has been wrong.

    -the shooter was misidentified
    -they said his father and another family member had been killed at home
    -they claimed his mother was a teacher at the school
    -the mother was killed at the school
    -the principal let him into the school because she recognized him
    -the children were called kindergarteners
    -his brother drove him to the school and was an accomplice
    -the rifle was in the car
    -his girlfriend and another friend were missing

    There's probably more. No accountability either.
    Don't forget:

    -saying that the shooter was a parent of one of the kids at the school
    -reports that the gunman went to the school the day before and had an altercation with the principal and three other staff members. They kept repeating this even after the police said it never happened
    -in addition to your second point - they reported that the brother/father was killed in Hoboken and that the shooter drove 80 miles to Newtown and right to the school
    -there was a second gunman and he was found in the woods wearing hunting gear (he was in fact, just a hunter who had the misfortune of being there at the wrong time)
    -there are still reports/stories being released about her being a teacher at the school even though it is clearly untrue. Most of the staff at the school never heard of her and the superintendent said she is not on the personnel list


    As I said in an earlier post, the reporting on this has been terrible. It's the "FIRST" mentality that is driving the news media today. Of course there will be no accountability.
    laynes and Kat Scorp like this.

  14. #209
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    I wonder too if some of the bad reporting is because of the good job law enforcement seems to be doing keeping a lid on details until they feel it's time. The Lt who has been giving updates has been pretty tight lipped and adamant about this being an open investigation. I think he's done a good job so far but that leaves the media to get "stories" from any source they can. Of course, they could just wait for the facts but that's not going to happen.

  15. #210
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double post but just saw this...

    St. Rose of Lima Church in Newtown has been evacuated. State police have responded to the church, according to NBC reporter Audrey Washington.
    A noon mass was being held at the Roman Catholic Church at 46 Church Hill Road.
    Witnesses at the mass said police entered the church and told parishioners that a threat had been made against the church and the surrounding area and that everyone had to leave immediately.
    More than a dozen State Troopers armed with assault rifles entered a home next to the church, according to Washington.
    Parishioners and news media were told to leave the church property.
    More information will be posted as it becomes available.

    Newtown Church Evacuated | NBC Connecticut

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