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Thread: Congresswoman Shot in Head in Arizona

  1. #271
    Elite Member t13nif's Avatar
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    "disingenious"

    Word of the thread.
    "Hope everyone' shavin a good one!" - Karistiona

  2. #272
    Elite Member sluce's Avatar
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    LOL - I was just about to comment about the use of disingenious.

    I believe it is disingenious to make comments about infertility and try to make it ok by stating that you are infertile only to then talk about your kids.
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    Elite Member MrsMarsters's Avatar
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    What did I miss something?
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  4. #274
    Gold Member Snoopy's Avatar
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    Just saw this as a link on my twitter feed. It's to a blog which quotes the Tea Party Express.

    Tea Party Express Calls Jared Lee Loughner Liberal, Fundraises Off of Media 'Slander'

    Posted Tuesday, January 11, 2011 1:16 PM | By David Weigel

    Act I of the politicization of the Tucson shooting was pundits and liberal politicians asking if right-wing rhetoric contributed to the violence. Act II was conservatives rejecting this and pointing out, by the way, that the media did not rush to judgment when Nidal Hassan killed 12 people at Fort Hood.

    Act III is the conservative fightback, as exemplified by this message from the Tea Party Express to its members.

    Dear Friends:

    The attack on conservatives and the tea party movement has continued over the past 24 hours. Media figures and liberal activists continue to falsely suggest that Rush Limbaugh, Gov. Sarah Palin and the tea party movement had anything to do with the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords.

    They've launched this attack even though they know it is a total and complete lie.

    During the past few days friends of the shooter, Jared Loughner, have stepped forward to say that they knew him to be a political liberal. He admired the Communist Manifesto and burned the American flag.*

    But many in the news media and the political Left are nonetheless still trying to use this awful tragedy to make people think that somehow Limbaugh, Palin and the tea party were responsible for this attack.

    They are doing it for one reason: it is an attempt to silence us and make this patriotic, constitutionalist movement controversial - so they can try and stop the momentum this tea party movement has built.
    Last night on MSNBC and liberal websites, we here at the Tea Party Express were called despicable and shameless because we won't back down.

    Well guess what, friends - we're not going to back down. Not when we have nothing to apologize for, and certainly we won't just sit back while the media and liberals think they can slander us by calling us responsible for a mass murder.

    Instead, do you know what we're going to do? We're going to fight back with even more determination and pride. Since we have to "pay" to get our message heard (the liberal media bias is on display like never before with this tragedy), we're asking our supporters to help us fight back.

    We want to have our largest fundraising day in the history of our organization and we need your help to achieve this success. Please, make a contribution online right now to the Tea Party Express - CLICK HERE TO CONTRIBUTE.

    *This is not true, by the way. Loughner's YouTube page listed The Communist Manifesto among his favorite books, alongside Alice in Wonderland and Ayn Rand's We the Living. He also included a video of a flag-burning on his "favorite" page -- he did not himself burn a flag.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/wei...a-slander.aspx

  5. #275
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Wow!! I cannot believe that they would even stoop so low.. My God! The evil and stupid that men do..

  6. #276
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    But you used the example of Cantor and it was known VERY soon after the incident that it was a random shot in the air.
    I didn't know that it was known when Cantor made his comments, because in the article I read that quoted his comments to the House also said that police were investigating the incident and had no leads yet. I'm sure they did learn more later and it was published, but it wasn't in the original article that I read. I have no reason to believe he deliberately lied about it, either, since I'm sure the NY Times would have pointed that out when he made his comments.

    If you want another example, then here is an article about a man who was arrested by the FBI in March 2010 for threatening to kill Cantor and his family. The man's arrest was around same time Cantor made his comments to the House about violent rhetoric and the shooting at his campaign office. The same guy arrested for threatening Cantor also contributed money to Obama's campaign, so should we blame Obama for "inspiring" one of his followers to make threats on a Republican Congressman? Of course not - Obama had no connection to this guy and no way of knowing he was deranged.

    Wow!! I cannot believe that they would even stoop so low.. My God! The evil and stupid that men do..
    Also totally predictable. One of the Tea Party's main talking points is that the media is biased and is out to get them, so by jumping on a Palin/Tea Party connection to the shooting before any facts were out, and then it being discovered that there was no connection, it played right into the fundraiser's hands. So now members of the Tea Party are fired up even more and have their victim status confirmed, they can say, "Look at the media and liberals and how they painted us as murderers and responsible for a horrible tragedy."

    Palin will no doubt get a fundraising boost, as will certain Democrats (mainly gun control advocates). I used to work in politics - you'd be surprised at the stuff that goes out after a national tragedy. Few politicians have to cajones to act classy and resist it.
    Last edited by Tati; January 12th, 2011 at 12:04 PM.
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  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post

    Cantor had no way of knowing if the shot was random when he requested help from the Democrats who then controlled the House. The point is still the same that he felt threatened, and brought up the point of violent rhetoric, but no one cared back then.
    Well, the repubs reap what they sew. Since they climb in bed with the NRA, they better be prepared for the occasional random shot.

    BTW, a random shot is NOT an assassination attempt. Ex-Dem who goes to anti-war demos, my ass...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    If you want another example, then here is an article about a man who was arrested by the FBI in March 2010 for threatening to kill Cantor and his family. The man's arrest was around same time Cantor made his comments to the House about violent rhetoric and the shooting at his campaign office.
    So? What is your point? When anyone threatens to cut a US male from his guns, there are reprisals.

    Which party gets more from the NRA, and survivalists groups, again?
    Last edited by Tati; January 12th, 2011 at 12:05 PM.
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  8. #278
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Well, Sarah Palin released a video statement this morning..so I guess she's running in 2012!!

  9. #279
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    Also totally predictable. One of the Tea Party's main talking points is that the media is biased and is out to get them, so by jumping on a Palin/Tea Party connection to the shooting before any facts were out, and then it being discovered that there was no connection, it played right into the fundraiser's hands. So now members of the Tea Party are fired up even more and have their victim status confirmed, they can say, "Look at the media and liberals and how they painted us as murderers and responsible for a horrible tragedy."
    It's still too early to say that Loughner was influenced, or not influenced, by the Tea Party. What we do know is that Tea Partiers proudly wore signs to rallies saying that they were "unarmed (this time)". Very ironic that Loughner showed up to a political gathering "armed this time". Not a confirmation of being influenced by the Tea Party, but the relationship is strangely familiar.

    And that Tea Partier Sharon Angle said that there might be 2nd-amendment "remedies", and Kaufman's reference to "if votes don't work, bullets will".

    And Giffords' office being vandalized over her vote on Obama healthcare, which was counter to what the Tea Partiers wanted.

    And Giffords being one of the representatives whose districts was targeted with Tea Partier Palin's bullseye.

    All a very strange and ironic confluence of events....

    Quote Originally Posted by *DIVA! View Post
    Well, Sarah Palin released a video statement this morning..so I guess she's running in 2012!!
    A statement released without a disclaimer by Fox News stating that Palin is an employee of FoxNews. Bunch of bullshit artists.
    Last edited by Tati; January 12th, 2011 at 12:05 PM.

  10. #280
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    The right to bear arms means you have a right to carry a gun! Someone needs to tell Palin this:
    I agree with the sentiments shared yesterday at the beautiful Catholic mass held in honor of the victims. The mass will hopefully help begin a healing process for the families touched by this tragedy and for our country.

    Our exceptional nation, so vibrant with ideas and the passionate exchange and debate of ideas, is a light to the rest of the world. Congresswoman Giffords and her constituents were exercising their right to exchange ideas that day, to celebrate our Republic's core values and peacefully assemble to petition our government. It's inexcusable and incomprehensible why a single evil man took the lives of peaceful citizens that day.

    There is a bittersweet irony that the strength of the American spirit shines brightest in times of tragedy. We saw that in Arizona. We saw the tenacity of those clinging to life, the compassion of those who kept the victims alive, and the heroism of those who overpowered a deranged gunman.

    Like many, I've spent the past few days reflecting on what happened and praying for guidance. After this shocking tragedy, I listened at first puzzled, then with concern, and now with sadness, to the irresponsible statements from people attempting to apportion blame for this terrible event.

    President Reagan said, "We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them, not collectively with all the citizens of a state, not with those who listen to talk radio, not with maps of swing districts used by both sides of the aisle, not with law-abiding citizens who respectfully exercise their First Amendment rights at campaign rallies, not with those who proudly voted in the last election.

    The last election was all about taking responsibility for our country's future. President Obama and I may not agree on everything, but I know he would join me in affirming the health of our democratic process. Two years ago his party was victorious. Last November, the other party won. In both elections the will of the American people was heard, and the peaceful transition of power proved yet again the enduring strength of our Republic.

    Vigorous and spirited public debates during elections are among our most cherished traditions. And after the election, we shake hands and get back to work, and often both sides find common ground back in D.C. and elsewhere. If you don't like a person's vision for the country, you're free to debate that vision. If you don't like their ideas, you're free to propose better ideas. But, especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible.

    There are those who claim political rhetoric is to blame for the despicable act of this deranged, apparently apolitical criminal. And they claim political debate has somehow gotten more heated just recently. But when was it less heated? Back in those "calm days" when political figures literally settled their differences with dueling pistols? In an ideal world all discourse would be civil and all disagreements cordial. But our Founding Fathers knew they weren't designing a system for perfect men and women. If men and women were angels, there would be no need for government. Our Founders' genius was to design a system that helped settle the inevitable conflicts caused by our imperfect passions in civil ways. So, we must condemn violence if our Republic is to endure.
    As I said while campaigning for others last March in Arizona during a very heated primary race, "We know violence isn't the answer. When we 'take up our arms', we're talking about our vote." Yes, our debates are full of passion, but we settle our political differences respectfully at the ballot box - as we did just two months ago, and as our Republic enables us to do again in the next election, and the next. That's who we are as Americans and how we were meant to be. Public discourse and debate isn't a sign of crisis, but of our enduring strength. It is part of why America is exceptional.

    No one should be deterred from speaking up and speaking out in peaceful dissent, and we certainly must not be deterred by those who embrace evil and call it good. And we will not be stopped from celebrating the greatness of our country and our foundational freedoms by those who mock its greatness by being intolerant of differing opinion and seeking to muzzle dissent with shrill cries of imagined insults.

    Just days before she was shot, Congresswoman Giffords read the First Amendment on the floor of the House. It was a beautiful moment and more than simply "symbolic," as some claim, to have the Constitution read by our Congress. I am confident she knew that reading our sacred charter of liberty was more than just "symbolic." But less than a week after Congresswoman Giffords reaffirmed our protected freedoms, another member of Congress announced that he would propose a law that would criminalize speech he found offensive.
    It is in the hour when our values are challenged that we must remain resolved to protect those values. Recall how the events of 9-11 challenged our values and we had to fight the tendency to trade our freedoms for perceived security. And so it is today.

    Let us honor those precious lives cut short in Tucson by praying for them and their families and by cherishing their memories. Let us pray for the full recovery of the wounded. And let us pray for our country. In times like this we need God's guidance and the peace He provides. We need strength to not let the random acts of a criminal turn us against ourselves, or weaken our solid foundation, or provide a pretext to stifle debate.

    America must be stronger than the evil we saw displayed last week. We are better than the mindless finger-pointing we endured in the wake of the tragedy. We will come out of this stronger and more united in our desire to peacefully engage in the great debates of our time, to respectfully embrace our differences in a positive manner, and to unite in the knowledge that, though our ideas may be different, we must all strive for a better future for our country. May God bless America.
    - Sarah Palin
    Sarah Palin's Arizona Shooting Statement Blasts Journalists & Pundits' 'Blood Libel' (VIDEO)

  11. #281
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    Backpedal.
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  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by baked_tater View Post
    Partisan calls for violence are never OK. And never well earned. This is not just Sarah Palin's doing. Both parties are as guilty as the other. To say otherwise is disingenious. One is not worse than the other.
    this

    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    Ah, so assassination threats have to be "well-earned"?

    Like others have been saying, hypocrisy. If the politician is a member of the opposition, then their death threats are well-deserved, violent rhetoric is justified, and anything goes. If it's a member of "their side," then it's outrageous, dangerous and must be stopped. If you hate Bush, then death threats are OK. If you're against someone, then all the violent rhetoric is justified. I remember how many people applauded when Sandra Bernhard said she said she hoped Sarah Palin would be gang raped.

    Again, that's one of the reason why I left the Democratic Party. All the vitriol and bullshit was embraced and encouraged and everybody cared about the Iraqis when Bush was in office. Once Obama was elected, none of the same people I knew who spent years claiming they were so passionate about anti-war causes did anything. They became so transparent, because the Iraq War was still going on, but all but a few of them left the anti-war movement.

    I've seen Republicans use tragedy for political gain, but now it is the Democrats who are doing it. And the bottom line is that nobody who stands on corpses to take potshots at the opposition has claim to the high road.
    and this. It's really messed up to try to act as if Palin supporters are the only ones who act violent. It's been like this since Bush was in office. One of the things I think is very sad about the little girl is that this is the world she lived in, everyone at each other's throats pointing the finger. Everyone must stop. It's not just the "other guys.'

  13. #283
    Elite Member SillyME54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by t13nif View Post
    "disingenious"

    Word of the thread.
    OT but it's actually "disingenuous"

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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyME54 View Post
    OT but it's actually "disingenuous"
    That's why it's the word of the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gristledonna View Post
    and this. It's really messed up to try to act as if Palin supporters are the only ones who act violent.
    Except overwhelmingly, they are the ones threatening violence, who use violence as a cornerstone of their movement.

    This false equivalence is disgusting. Just look at their rhetoric - Tea Baggers are hostile, threatening, take absolute glee in lying to support their agenda. They sew hatred as an essential part of their premise.

    Nothing like them exists in the (nonexistent) left in this country, or any other political movement.

    You cannot state that the Tea Baggers are equal to all other politicos. That simply isn't true.
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