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Thread: Congresswoman Shot in Head in Arizona

  1. #256
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    The Tea Partiers used violent rhetoric throughout the campaign. Sharon Angle referred to voters using "2nd amendment remedies" if voting didn't work out their way. On July 4, at a Tea Party rally, radio host Joyce Kaufman said, "if votes don't work, bullets will." Tea Partiers marched around rallies saying that they came "unarmed this time".

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    I just saw the husband of that neighbor who took the little girl. She is in great pain with lots of morphine, so he doesn't know all of it yet, but she calls out to the little girl, saying "We've got to get out of here" and they were in line holding hands. Both were so excited to see Gabby. The neighbor is obviously in bad shape and still doesn't know about the child. The man said he and his wife did not have grandchildren yet and were "practicing" and had taken a great interest in both of those children. It was heartbreaking and I wonder if that woman will actually live-she sounds in very bad shape.
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  3. #258
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I just saw the husband of that neighbor who took the little girl. She is in great pain with lots of morphine, so he doesn't know all of it yet, but she calls out to the little girl, saying "We've got to get out of here" and they were in line holding hands. Both were so excited to see Gabby. The neighbor is obviously in bad shape and still doesn't know about the child. The man said he and his wife did not have grandchildren yet and were "practicing" and had taken a great interest in both of those children. It was heartbreaking and I wonder if that woman will actually live-she sounds in very bad shape.
    I heard that report too, it's heartbreaking.
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  4. #259
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    ^ wow

  5. #260
    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    Ok, then how do you excuse the others? Another guy was arrested yesterday for planning to attack the offices of Dems in Congress (it got buried under the Arizona stories.) How about the guy who shot up the Holocaust Museum? What about the "radical leftist" federal judges who now need body guards to go to the store because they are targets for assassination?
    Are you seriously trying to say that Democrats are the only politicians or judges who have ever been threatened, or are being threatened? You do realize that the last president who the subject of an assassination attempt was a Republican, don't you?

    Back in March of 2010, Eric Cantor, then House Minority Whip, had a shooting at his campaign office. He's a Republican and also was the highest ranking Jew in Congress. It was close in time to when Jean Schmidt, a Republican in Ohio, was also receiving death threats and Cantor asked the Democratic leadership in Congress for help, but it was in the midst of the health care vote and so no one was interested. So yes, it is hypocritical to see Democrats jumping on the opposition for things they have done themselves (using targets and gunsights on their campaign materials, for example) and to see them NOW trying to say they want to call the back the rhetoric, when they had ignored attempts to do so last year by a Republican Congressman who had been threatened. Cantor happened to not be in his office at the time the bullet came through - would it only have mattered if he had been hit?

    People can argue all they want about Tea Party, but I saw just as bad signs at anti-war rallies, and none of them were general "let's get our guns" stuff, but active suggestions of violence against then-President Bush. Back when Salon.com had their old message boards, I was active there, and during Bush's presidency there was a poster whose .sig line was, "The country desperately needs someone who wants to impress Jodie Foster." The Salon admins never did a thing about it. I had a friend who attended rallies in a "Kill Bush" t-shirt, and only a couple of us called him out on it. A friend of a friend was visited by the Secret Service for posts on her blog. One of the reasons I stopped going to those anti-war rallies was because they were getting too violent: there were too many assaults and too many people there openly advocating violence that they squeezed out anyone interested in peaceful protests. It was particularly bad on college campuses, where kids shouted down any opposition and started vandalizing and assault anyone who was police or military. There was even an entire movie made about George W. Bush being assassinated. How do you excuse all that, or is the violent rhetoric okay if it's one side? The incredible vitriol spewed during George W. Bush's presidency is one of the reasons I left the Democratic party to become an Independent, because I couldn't stand the way the Party was encouraging such behavior.
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    It's not as if the vitriol spewed at Bush wasn't well-earned. And I think that film was a British production.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Something about 100,000 dead iraqi's at Bush's feet might have something to do with it.
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    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    "Bring a knife to a gun fight" is a metaphor..that means all talk and no action! However, in the wrong mind it could mean something terrible!
    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I just saw the husband of that neighbor who took the little girl. She is in great pain with lots of morphine, so he doesn't know all of it yet, but she calls out to the little girl, saying "We've got to get out of here" and they were in line holding hands. Both were so excited to see Gabby. The neighbor is obviously in bad shape and still doesn't know about the child. The man said he and his wife did not have grandchildren yet and were "practicing" and had taken a great interest in both of those children. It was heartbreaking and I wonder if that woman will actually live-she sounds in very bad shape.
    That broke my heart. Can you imagine the guilt she will feel?

  9. #264
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    Are you seriously trying to say that Democrats are the only politicians or judges who have ever been threatened, or are being threatened? You do realize that the last president who the subject of an assassination attempt was a Republican, don't you?

    Back in March of 2010, Eric Cantor, then House Minority Whip, had a shooting at his campaign office. He's a Republican and also was the highest ranking Jew in Congress. It was close in time to when Jean Schmidt, a Republican in Ohio, was also receiving death threats and Cantor asked the Democratic leadership in Congress for help, but it was in the midst of the health care vote and so no one was interested. So yes, it is hypocritical to see Democrats jumping on the opposition for things they have done themselves (using targets and gunsights on their campaign materials, for example) and to see them NOW trying to say they want to call the back the rhetoric, when they had ignored attempts to do so last year by a Republican Congressman who had been threatened. Cantor happened to not be in his office at the time the bullet came through - would it only have mattered if he had been hit?

    People can argue all they want about Tea Party, but I saw just as bad signs at anti-war rallies, and none of them were general "let's get our guns" stuff, but active suggestions of violence against then-President Bush. Back when Salon.com had their old message boards, I was active there, and during Bush's presidency there was a poster whose .sig line was, "The country desperately needs someone who wants to impress Jodie Foster." The Salon admins never did a thing about it. I had a friend who attended rallies in a "Kill Bush" t-shirt, and only a couple of us called him out on it. A friend of a friend was visited by the Secret Service for posts on her blog. One of the reasons I stopped going to those anti-war rallies was because they were getting too violent: there were too many assaults and too many people there openly advocating violence that they squeezed out anyone interested in peaceful protests. It was particularly bad on college campuses, where kids shouted down any opposition and started vandalizing and assault anyone who was police or military. There was even an entire movie made about George W. Bush being assassinated. How do you excuse all that, or is the violent rhetoric okay if it's one side? The incredible vitriol spewed during George W. Bush's presidency is one of the reasons I left the Democratic party to become an Independent, because I couldn't stand the way the Party was encouraging such behavior.
    You're not making a bad point, it's legitimate that people did want Bush out of office by any means. Although I'm not a huge fan of the they did it toooooooooo as rationale for anyone over the age of 4, BUT, the Cantor thing? Really? I assume you mean the bullet that was a random shot and proven to not having anything to do with him in any way.

    Eric Cantor: Bullet Shot At VA Congressman's Office Was 'Randomly Fired,' Police Say

    Bullet That Struck Cantor's Office Appears to Have Been Randomly Fired - FoxNews.com
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  10. #265
    Elite Member Fly_On_TheWall's Avatar
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    The democrats used the same type of graphic in 08, as I posted above. Did they really mean they wanted these people dead, or as Palin's graphic, is it rhetoric?

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  11. #266
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    That broke my heart. Can you imagine the guilt she will feel?
    No, I can't imagine it. The damage from this incident will have repercussions for a lifetime. I don't think we know everything about the shooter yet either; I think there's more to come on this nut. I'm still so sad about this.

    Some good news - reports are that Giffords is able to breathe on her own. Her neurosurgeon says he doesn't know how or why she's doing as well as she is, but she's better than expected. (from watching NBC, MSNBC tonight)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Something about 100,000 dead iraqi's at Bush's feet might have something to do with it.
    I must have missed where Obama stopped the deaths of the soldiers, or even brought them home by stopping the war itself. One is the same as the other.

    Partisan calls for violence are never OK. And never well earned. This is not just Sarah Palin's doing. Both parties are as guilty as the other. To say otherwise is disingenious. One is not worse than the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pojo View Post
    It's not as if the vitriol spewed at Bush wasn't well-earned. And I think that film was a British production.
    Last edited by Tati; January 12th, 2011 at 12:02 PM.

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    Elite Member NoNoRehab's Avatar
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    It's not as if the vitriol spewed at Bush wasn't well-earned.
    Something about 100,000 dead iraqi's at Bush's feet might have something to do with it.
    Ah, so assassination threats have to be "well-earned"?

    Like others have been saying, hypocrisy. If the politician is a member of the opposition, then their death threats are well-deserved, violent rhetoric is justified, and anything goes. If it's a member of "their side," then it's outrageous, dangerous and must be stopped. If you hate Bush, then death threats are OK. If you're against someone, then all the violent rhetoric is justified. I remember how many people applauded when Sandra Bernhard said she said she hoped Sarah Palin would be gang raped.

    Again, that's one of the reason why I left the Democratic Party. All the vitriol and bullshit was embraced and encouraged and everybody cared about the Iraqis when Bush was in office. Once Obama was elected, none of the same people I knew who spent years claiming they were so passionate about anti-war causes did anything. They became so transparent, because the Iraq War was still going on, but all but a few of them left the anti-war movement.

    I've seen Republicans use tragedy for political gain, but now it is the Democrats who are doing it. And the bottom line is that nobody who stands on corpses to take potshots at the opposition has claim to the high road.

    BUT, the Cantor thing? Really? I assume you mean the bullet that was a random shot and proven to not having anything to do with him in any way.
    And if Giffords was the target in this shooting rampage, then are the other people who died less dead because it didn't have anything to do with them and they weren't the targets?

    Cantor had no way of knowing if the shot was random when he requested help from the Democrats who then controlled the House. The point is still the same that he felt threatened, and brought up the point of violent rhetoric, but no one cared back then.
    Last edited by Tati; January 12th, 2011 at 12:03 PM.
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  14. #269
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    And if Giffords was the target in this shooting rampage, then are the other people who died less dead because it didn't have anything to do with them and they weren't the targets?

    Cantor had no way of knowing if the shot was random when he requested help from the Democrats who then controlled the House. The point is still the same that he felt threatened, and brought up the point of violent rhetoric, but no one cared back then.
    You are a walking contradiction...

    Um, again... Cantor WASN'T the target

  15. #270
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNoRehab View Post
    And if Giffords was the target in this shooting rampage, then are the other people who died less dead because it didn't have anything to do with them and they weren't the targets?

    Cantor had no way of knowing if the shot was random when he requested help from the Democrats who then controlled the House. The point is still the same that he felt threatened, and brought up the point of violent rhetoric, but no one cared back then.
    I didn't disagree with your point about rhetoric and applying to both sides. But you used the example of Cantor and it was known VERY soon after the incident that it was a random shot in the air. It was Cantor who went all "I've been targeted" after he already knew that it had nothing to do with him. He tried to make a political point, but lied in trying to do so. Diminishes the impact don't you think? Surely there must be a better example to make your point, unless your point is that individual gun ownership serves no real purpose, in which case, I'm totally on board with that.
    If i hear one more personal attack, i will type while drunk, then you can cry! - Bugdoll
    (716): I'd call her a cunt, but she doesn't seem to have the depth or warmth
    Quote Originally Posted by shedevilang View Post
    (Replying to MontanaMama) This is some of the smartest shit I ever read

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