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Thread: Congresswoman Shot in Head in Arizona

  1. #166
    Elite Member cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    *snort*

    if she's in the middle then she's already right of center. There's no actual left representation in the US.
    She's considered moderate centerist, but she did vote for health care reform.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    I want to believe that too but sometimes I think we live in an 'amnesiac' society where today's news soon gets old, people conveniently 'forget,' etc.
    Agreed. I think she'll find a way to crawl herself out of this mess. That said the Tea Party just got a huge kick in the nuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by cupcake View Post
    She's considered moderate centerist, but she did vote for health care reform.
    I think I read she also supports gay rights. Someone correct me if I'm mixed up.
    Last edited by Tati; January 10th, 2011 at 11:11 AM.

  3. #168
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    A man fell on his wife and covered her so that she wouldn't have to die. And he did instead. They were high school sweethearts that had found each other again later in life.
    Life is short. Break the Rules. Forgive Quickly. Kiss Slowly. Love Truly.
    Laugh Uncontrollably. And never regret ANYTHING that makes you smile.

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  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pojo View Post
    I think I read she also supports gay rights. Someone correct me if I'm mixed up.
    I believe that's correct.
    They say the gunman was antisemist, do you think her being jewish plays any part or more that he didn't agree on her politics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookie View Post
    A man fell on his wife and covered her so that she wouldn't have to die. And he did instead. They were high school sweethearts that had found each other again later in life.
    That's a beautiful story
    Last edited by Tati; January 10th, 2011 at 11:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBen View Post
    Ugh, this is all just so sad and wrong. I agree with those who are saying we shouldn't just automatically point fingers and blame people who aren't actually involved... but at the same time, I do think that all the violent, aggressive language on both sides has fueled a lot more fire than either side realizes.

    Real names were on that Palin shooter list. Real people are being encouraged when Obama says "bring a gun to a knife fight!" It's all real, and it's all scary, on all sides. A little girl got murdered because of craziness and hate. A federal judge. So many others. Even if it had literally nothing to do with Palin or the Tea Party or anything political at all, the fact still remains that politics hangs a cloud of violence and hatred over our country nowadays and it's affecting people.

    Very well said.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by cupcake View Post
    I believe that's correct.
    They say the gunman was antisemist, do you think her being jewish plays any part or more that he didn't agree on her politics?
    The man is a nut and his agenda is incomprehensible.

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    I doubt this can or should be laid at Sarah Palin's door. But maybe people will listen more closely to what she's saying and come to their senses.

    Maybe they will also realize that someone like Gabby Giffords is like the polar opposite of Palin--smart, hardworking, down to earth, and actually walking the walk--and that we need more Gabby Giffords and fewer Sarah Palins.

  8. #173
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ..ain't walkin any walk right now.,.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #174
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    ^save a spot for me at the bar in hell

  10. #175
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    Default Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation

    Shooting suspect's nihilism rose with isolation - Yahoo! News

    TUCSON, Ariz. At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"

    Loughner was angry about her response she read the question and didn't have much to say.

    "He was like ... 'What do you think of these people who are working for the government and they can't describe what they do?'" one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday. "He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy."

    Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonsensical and obsessed with how words create reality.

    The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.

    "If you call me a terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem," the 22-year-old wrote Dec. 15 in a wide-ranging screed that was posted in video form and ended with nearly the same question his friends said he posed to Giffords: "What's government if words don't have meaning?"

    On Sunday, Loughner was charged in the shootings a day earlier at a political event outside a Tucson supermarket. Aside from the six killed, 14 people were injured. Doctors were optimistic about Giffords' chances for survival.

    Loughner had at least one other contact with Giffords. Investigators said they carried out a search warrant at Loughner's home and seized a letter addressed to him from Giffords' congressional stationery in which she thanked him for attending a "Congress on your Corner" event at a mall in Tucson in 2007. Saturday's shooting occurred at a similar event.

    Other evidence seized from his home included an envelope from a safe with messages such as "I planned ahead," "My assassination" and the name "Giffords" next to what appears to be Loughner's signature. Police say he purchased the Glock pistol used in the attack in November.

    Loughner lives with his parents about a five-minute drive from the shootings, in a middle-class neighborhood lined with desert landscaping and palm trees. Sheriff's deputies blocked off much of the street Sunday.

    Neighbors said Loughner kept to himself and was often seen walking his dog, almost always wearing a hooded sweat shirt and listening to his iPod.

    His high school friends said they fell out of touch with Loughner and last spoke to him around March, when one of them was going to set up some bottles in the desert for target practice and Loughner suggested he might come along. It was unusual Loughner hadn't expressed an interest in guns before and his increasingly confrontational behavior was pushing them apart. He would send bizarre text messages, but also break off contact for weeks on end.

    "We just started getting sketched out about him," the friend said. It was the first time he'd felt that way.

    Around the same time, Loughner's behavior also began to worry officials at Pima Community College, where Loughner began attending classes in 2005, the school said in a release.

    Between February and September, Loughner "had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions," the statement said. He was suspended in September 2010 after college police discovered a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal according to the U.S. Constitution. He withdrew voluntarily the following month, and was told he could return only if, among other things, a mental health professional agreed he did not present a danger, the school said.

    It was at the college that Loughner had posed his question to Giffords about government and words, one friend said. A college spokesman said Giffords often has used school property for open events; a Giffords spokesman said he was not sure at which event the exchange would have taken place.

    Loughner's alienation from his friends was gradual.

    The Loughner they met when he was a freshman at Mountain View High School may have been socially awkward, but he was generally happy and fun to be around. The crew smoked marijuana every day, and when they weren't going to concerts or watching movies they talked about the meaning of life and dabbled in conspiracy theories.

    For a time, Loughner drank heavily, to the point of poisoning himself, the friends said. Once, during school lunch break as a junior, he downed so much tequila that he came back to class, within five minutes passed out cold, had to be rushed to the hospital and "almost died," one friend said.

    Mistrust of government was Loughner's defining conviction, the friends said. He believed the U.S. government was behind 9/11, and worried that governments were maneuvering to create a unified monetary system ("a New World Order currency" one friend said) so that social elites and bureaucrats could control the rest of the world.

    On his YouTube page, he listed among his favorite books "Animal Farm" and "Brave New World" two novels about how authorities control the masses. Other books in the wide-ranging list included "Mein Kampf," "The Communist Manifesto," "Peter Pan" and Aesop's Fables.

    Over time, Loughner became increasingly introspective what one of the friends described as a "nihilistic rut."

    An ardent atheist, he began to characterize people as sheep whose free will was being sapped by the government and the monotony of modern life.

    "He didn't want people to wake up and do the same thing every day. He wanted more chaos, he wanted less regularity," one friend said.

    The friends said Loughner told anyone who would listen that the world we see does not exist, that words have no meaning and that the only way to derive meaning was during sleep. Loughner began obsessing about a practice called lucid dreaming, in which people try to actively control their sleeping world.

    Several people who knew Loughner at community college said he did not engage in political discussions in fact, he didn't talk much at all, and when he did classmates cringed.

    "He made a lot of the people really uncomfortable, especially the girls in the class," said Steven Cates, who attended an advanced poetry writing class with Loughner at Pima Community College last spring. Though he struck up a passing friendship with Loughner, he said a group of other students went to the teacher to complain about Loughner at one point.

    Another poetry student, Don Coorough, said Loughner read a poem about bland tasks such as showering, going to the gym and riding the bus in wild "poetry slam" style "grabbing his crotch and jumping around the room."

    When other students, always seated, read their poems, Coorough said Loughner "would laugh at things that you wouldn't laugh at." After one woman read a poem about abortion, "he was turning all shades of red and laughing," and said, "Wow, she's just like a terrorist, she killed a baby," Coorough said.

    "He appeared to be to me an emotional cripple or an emotional child," Coorough said. "He lacked compassion, he lacked understanding and he lacked an ability to connect."

    Cates said Loughner "didn't have the social intelligence, but he definitely had the academic intelligence."

    "He was very into the knowledge aspect of school. He was really into his philosophy classes and he was really into logic and English. And he would get frustrated by the dumbed-down words people used in class," Cates said.

    Loughner expressed his interest in grammar and logic on the Internet as he made bizarre claims such as that the Mars rover and the space shuttle missions were faked.

    He frequently used "if-then" constructions in making nonsensical arguments. For instance: "If the living space is able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F then the human body is alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. The human body isn't alive in the NASA Space Shuttle. Thus, the living space isn't able to maintain the crews life at a temperature of -454F."

    Loughner also said in one video that government is "implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar." He described America's laws as "treasonous" and said that "every human who's mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency."

    Loughner described himself as a U.S. military recruit in the video, but the Army released a statement saying he tried to enlist but was rejected. The statement said under federal privacy law, no reason could be specified.

    In October 2007, Loughner was cited in Pima County for possession of drug paraphernalia, which was dismissed after he completed a diversion program, according to online records.

    A year later he was charged with an unknown "local charge" in Marana near Tucson. That charge was also dismissed following the completion of a diversion program in March 2009, the Arizona Daily Star reported.

    "He has kind of a troubled past, I can tell you that," Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said.

  11. #176
    Elite Member Brookie's Avatar
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    As is predictable, the "Today Show" crew is asking the same people the same questions 3 days in a row. No, Meredith - there isn't any more logic to it today than there was yesterday.

    Including Christina-Taylor Green's father, who is in obvious agony. Can't the just leave these people alone?
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  12. #177
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    Default Tucson shootings: Mental illness, not rhetoric, root of more political assassination

    Tucson shootings: Mental illness, not rhetoric, at root of more political assassinations historically | Top of the Ticket | Los Angeles Times

    It's tempting in the angry aftermath of deadly moments such as Saturday's shooting of 20 people in Tucson to seize on any convenient, seemingly credible explanation for the inexplicable. How could someone so young take it upon himself to lash out lethally to kill six innocent people and wound 14 others, all presumably unknown to him, on a sunny Saturday by a grocery ironically named Safeway?

    At his initial news conference Saturday, Sheriff Clarence Dupnik could not offer much specific information about the incident, including the accused's name or motive.

    However, the 74-year-old sheriff was somehow repeatedly certain the incident had something to do with overheated political rhetoric in his state and in America today, where grown-ups in public life call each other liars and hostage-takers. While others employ even more vicious vitriol hiding behind the convenient anonymity of the Internet.

    While that theory may gain broad traction, at least in these initial days, a look back at prominent assassinations and attempts in U.S. history finds far different common patterns -- more personal or....

    ...political motivations with mental illness, prime among them, the need to demand attention through some heinous act. Perceived political or employment grievances in which the targeted politician becomes the focus of the assassin's hatred and lethal weapon. At least one attempt was apparently inspired by a Hollywood movie.

    Arizona has been a politically conservative state for generations. But anyone studying the writings and videos of the accused, Jared Lee Loughner, is hard-pressed to find any coherence, let alone a political one either way.



    Friends on Twitter said Loughner was "left-wing" and "a pothead." Loughner claimed to admire both the "Communist Manifesto" and "Mein Kampf." Before his expulsion from college, classmates said he was given to unprovoked outbursts in class.

    His writing of conscious dreaming is gibberish. His lonely video of a U.S. flag-burning in the desert is amateurish, showing a young male in a hoodie, garbage bag and mask shuffling about like a senior citizen. The Army rejected him. Someone who could likely use some treatment, but one problem with these awful incidents is that, in hindsight, most involve mental cases. However, obviously not all mental cases take such deadly action.

    The sheriff has declared that his friend Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was the target, although her name does not appear in the rantings so far uncovered. A former Republican, Giffords was considered a Blue Dog Democrat, one who voted in favor of President Obama's healthcare legislation yet against Nancy Pelosi as her party's leader for the 112th Congress.

    The shooter attacked Giffords first. But then why fire nearly 18 more times? Unless the goal was to make a murderous media splash using Gifford and numerous other deaths as the guaranteed ignition point to finally be noticed, even if notoriously. Loughner's friends also call him a loner, five letters that come up consistently in American history.


    Jan. 30, 1835: Richard Lawrence aims two flintlock pistols at President Andrew Jackson. They misfire. A former general, Jackson proceeds to beat the would-be assassin senseless with the presidential cane. Lawrence was confined to a mental institution for the rest of his life.

    April 14, 1865: Abraham Lincoln. John Wilkes Booth. Sic semper tyrannis.

    July 2, 1881: Having written a speech supporting the successful election of James Garfield, Charles Guiteau felt he deserved a job in the new administration, although said speech was never actually given.

    His job application was repeatedly rebuffed, so Guiteau heard the call to execute the ungrateful chief executive. Garfield succumbed to infections 11 weeks after the shooting. Guiteau succumbed to hanging the next summer.

    Sept. 6, 1901: President William McKinley was attending the Pan-American Exposition in Buffalo when Leon Czolgosz, an anarchist who had been tracking the president's movements, caught up with him. He shot him twice.

    McKinley died eight days later from surgical complications. Czolgosz, who refused to cooperate with his attorney, was convicted and, justice being somewhat swifter in the early 1900s, was electrocuted the next month.

    Oct. 13, 1912: Former President Theodore Roosevelt was again seeking the White House when his famed verbosity saved a life -- his. In Milwaukee, a saloon keeper named John Schrank pumped a .38-caliber bullet into the politician's body. However, TR's folded 50-page speech and metal eyeglass case slowed the projectile. Roosevelt insisted on finishing his address.
    Then, recalling McKinley's deadly surgical complications that brought TR into office, opted to live with the bullet in his body the remaining years of his life, which ended in 1919. Schrank, who claimed McKinley's ghost had ordered the assassination, was institutionalized until his death in 1943.

    Feb. 15, 1933: In Miami, Democrat President-elect Franklin Roosevelt was talking with Mayor Anton Cermak (left in earlier photo above), a Bohemian immigrant who was the political architect of the Chicago Democratic machine now run by the brother of new Obama White House chief of staff, William Daley.

    Also in the waterfront crowd that day was another immigrant, Giuseppe Zangara, who hated all kinds of politicians, especially prominent ones, and had reportedly tracked outgoing Republican President Herbert Hoover. Zangara got off several shots while, as on Saturday, being subdued by crowd members. The bullets hit Cermak and four others. Cermak died in a hospital bed in March; Zangara the same month but in an electric chair.

    Roosevelt was the presumed target, although some noted that the death of a prominent political foe like Cermak did not exactly hurt the business of Chicago mobster Al Capone.
    Nov. 1, 1950: An attempted assassination of President Harry Truman by two Puerto Rican independence advocates fails but takes the lives of two White House guards.

    March 1, 1954: Four more Puerto Rican independence activists open up from the House gallery during debate on an immigration bill. Five representatives are wounded. The shooters receive 70-year sentences, but are released in 1979 by President Carter in apparent exchange for Cuba's Fidel Castro freeing some captured CIA agents.

    Nov. 22, 1963: President Kennedy assassinated in Dallas. The accused, Lee Harvey Oswald, himself assassinated by Jack Ruby, also now dead.

    June 5, 1968: Aggrieved over Robert Kennedy's support for Israel, Palestinian immigrant Sirhan Sirhan shoots and kills the campaigning New York senator in a kitchen pantry of Los Angeles' Ambassador Hotel.
    May 15, 1972: Arthur Bremer grew up in a dysfunctional Milwaukee household where he pretended to live in a TV family with no verbal or physical abuse. He had no friends, changed jobs frequently. After a 1971 arrest for carrying a concealed weapon, he is declared mentally ill but sane and undergoes some weeks of therapy.

    Early in 1972 he tells his diary he will shoot either Richard Nixon or George Wallace "to do something bold and dramatic" to make "a statement of my manhood for the world to see."

    After studying Sirhan's story and tracking Wallace for weeks, Bremer accomplishes that in Maryland, as last Saturday, at a political appearance in a shopping center.

    Wallace was paralyzed from the waist down. A jury rejected Bremer's insanity defense. He got 63 years, reduced to 53, was released after 35 and is on parole until 2025.

    1975: At least two attempts on President Ford's life, both by women and both in Northern California. Lynette Fromme and Sarah Jane Moore. Fromme, a member of the notorious Manson family, and Moore, who later said she'd been "blinded" by radical political beliefs, both received life sentences. However, both have been released, Moore in 2007 and Fromme in 2009.
    March 31, 1980: John Hinckley had become obsessed first with the violent movie, "Taxi Driver," the story of a would-be presidential assassin based on the story of Bremer's attempted Wallace killing. Hinckley also fixated on an actress in that film, Jodie Foster.

    Rejected and despite treatment for mental illness, Hinckley devised several bizarre plots to gain her attention, including an airplane hijacking and committing suicide in front of her, before settling on a presidential murder.

    He trailed Democrat Carter and then shot newly-installed Republican President Reagan, among others, at the side door to the Washington Hilton. Hinckley remains institutionalized. And you may have noticed since that gloomy D.C. day, there are no more videos of presidents entering or leaving regular hotel doors. That's because the most powerful elected official in the world now comes and goes through the freight elevators and secure basements with the reeking garbage dumpsters.

    July 24, 1998: Two days after shotgunning a dozen cats at his grandmother's house in Illinois, Russell Weston Jr. charged into the U.S. Capitol firing, presumably hunting members of Congress that he hated. Weston, who had previously been treated as a paranoid schizophrenic, exchanged fire with Capitol police, killing two officers before being wounded. He remains, untried, in a mental institution.

    In case you champion or fear more gun control attempts as a result of the Tucson shootings, Gary Langer, the numbers maestro for ABC News, points out that more limits have not been the typical result of previous notorious shootings.

  13. #178
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    The shooter has a lot of characteristics consistent with schizophrenia. So yes, the shooting probably had little to do with politics itself.

    I still hate SP, but maybe it's time to stop obsessing about her. The GOP will never let her become their 2012 candidate and they'll try to prevent a third-party run by her.

    She's been awfully quiet lately, after the last few weeks in which various GOP mouthpieces have declared that she is unelectable as president. Usually she can't STFU and responds immediately to any real or perceived slight. I wonder if this signals a new strategy? Regardless, I need to stop thinking about her.

  14. #179
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    Mein Kampf is NOT left wing!! ARGH!

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    I honestly think that guy just pasted a list of influential books on his page. He doesn't seem like he read any of them to me. If they were so influential to him you'd think he'd at least mention them in some of his rantings. The guy's a total intellectual fraud.

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