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Thread: Blaming the 11 year old victim of gang rape in Texas

  1. #76
    Gold Member Snoopy's Avatar
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    Do people blame parents when the church priest is molesting their kids? When the teacher does it repeatedly? or the coach? Why didn't Elizabeth Smart run away?

    Children in these situations are vulnerable and manipulated. She didn't feel she could go to her parents likely because of threats.

    Her parents made mistakes but I'm sure they never realized what was going on. Lots of parents miss the signs of abuse.

    The people who are responsible are the men that did this.

  2. #77
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^
    again, no one is saying the rapists are any less to blame. we're saying that on top of what these monsters did to her, the situation was allowed to go on for so long because her parents are useless. an 11 year-old sneaking out every night and coming home in the early hours of the morning? and they 'scolded' her but allowed it to go on? i hope the monster rapists get locked up for a loooong time but i also hope social services keeps the girl out of that house until her parents learn how to actually parent a child.
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  3. #78
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    yeah snoopy signs of abuse are so often missed thats true, I think partly b/c you just don't want to let your head go there, like its too terrible to face.

  4. #79
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    Do people blame parents when the church priest is molesting their kids?
    When the teacher does it repeatedly? or the coach?
    Why didn't Elizabeth Smart run away?
    Are the kids sneaking out of their windows every night - with their parent's knowledge?
    Children in these situations are vulnerable and manipulated. She didn't feel she could go to her parents likely because of threats.
    Her parents knew she was sneaking out. They scolded her every day (nearly).
    Her parents made mistakes but I'm sure they never realized what was going on. Lots of parents miss the signs of abuse.

    The people who are responsible are the men that did this.
    the men/boys/sick fucks are responsible for raping this girl. Yes. No doubt but the parents failed this girl too.
    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^
    again, no one is saying the rapists are any less to blame. we're saying that on top of what these monsters did to her, the situation was allowed to go on for so long because her parents are useless. an 11 year-old sneaking out every night and coming home in the early hours of the morning? and they 'scolded' her but allowed it to go on? i hope the monster rapists get locked up for a loooong time but i also hope social services keeps the girl out of that house until her parents learn how to actually parent a child.
    Agreed.
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    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    I'm not sure the home life was as messed up, potentially neglectful as it's being portrayed. Yes, the family was poor and struggling, but somewhere I read (possibly the first article here) that the older sisters were doing very well in school and excelling in AP classes and music, etc. and this little girl was a very good student up until the beginning of this nightmare. I don't think my mind would immediately go to gang rape if my child was sneaking out, but my response would have been a little more noticeable once I did get an inkling.

    We really won't know until trial what threats were used against this girl and her family. I cannot even wrap my mind around the thought process that these rapists had going through their heads and their reasoning over such a prolonged period of time.

    I hope that Children Services has her in very intensive therapy for a long time.
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    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    Gang Rape: Eight Suspects Arrested in Gang Rape of 11-year-old Girl - ktla.com

    here's another sick one. I'm just speechless; speechless! what is the "attraction" (for lack of a better word) to a child? I just can't get over it, I can't wrap my head around it

  7. #82
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Like others have mentioned, she probably was "sneaking out" because the rapists threatened her if she didn't comply. Standard kidnapping M.O. They probably also threatened her if she told anyone about what was happening. She was probably trying to protect her parents.

    If she's sneaking out at night, the parents and the rest of the household are probably asleep. They can tell her not to do it, as they did, but if she continues, what other course of action can they really take? Other than arranging a 24-7-365 watch (and I suppose wrestling her to the ground if she tried to leave), what else could they do? Handcuffing her to her bed or deadbolting her in her room is considered child abuse. That's not parenting, that's imprisoning. Should they have beaten her like the rapists threatened to do? Then she would have violence coming from criminals and her own family.

    Some parents go into full lockdown mode--with the best intentions--because they want to protect their kid. Others don't lockdown--with the best intentions--because they don't want their kid to end up saying "fuck this, I'm not a prisoner" and end up becoming runaways. If a kid is a runaway, you definitely can't help them anymore. Everyone has a different style of parenting and a different set of kids to work with. I don't know what I would have done in their particular situation because obviously the paper doesn't have all the details. Even if the parents succeeded in keeping her in at night, she still could have been captured before/after school. Is daytime abduction rape any better than nighttime coercion rape? Whoopi might know.

    It is boggling, though, that the focus ends up being on the unforeseen "mistakes" of the victim and the victims parents rather than the actual pre-meditated crimes of the rapists. Imagine the horror of finding out your child was the victim of an awful crime. Now imagine that the local community and the internet is saying it's due to your parenting. Would that really fly with any GR parents? "Sure, the criminals were planning the crime all along, but Mom should have known not to be on GR instead of watching their kid like they were conjoined twins!!" As if! No one seems to be asking where the rapists' parents were in all of this either. If anyone needs helicopter surveillance, it's kids who commit crimes, not kids who are innocent.
    Last edited by lurkur; March 30th, 2011 at 05:04 PM.

  8. #83
    Gold Member eeyore0101's Avatar
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    Even if they didn't threaten her that she had to come back for more, shit like that happening to you totally fucks up your mind. Feelings of worthlessness, that that's all that you're good for, so you might as well keep doing it happen to some people after an attack.

    So basically, my point is, I don't care why she went back again and I hope that whatever her reasons were won't sway the jury in any negative fashion. The bastards should fry.

    Rape is rape - whatever your parents are like, however you may have acted, whatever your age is, what your motives may have been to return - it's a nonissue. And the people in this town don't seem to be getting that.
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  9. #84
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lurkur View Post
    Like others have mentioned, she probably was "sneaking out" because the rapists threatened her if she didn't comply. Standard kidnapping M.O. They probably also threatened her if she told anyone about what was happening. She was probably trying to protect her parents.

    If she's sneaking out at night, the parents and the rest of the household are probably asleep. They can tell her not to do it, as they did, but if she continues, what other course of action can they really take? Other than arranging a 24-7-365 watch (and I suppose wrestling her to the ground if she tried to leave), what else could they do? Handcuffing her to her bed or deadbolting her in her room is considered child abuse. That's not parenting, that's imprisoning. Should they have beaten her like the rapists threatened to do? Then she would have violence coming from criminals and her own family.

    Some parents go into full lockdown mode--with the best intentions--because they want to protect their kid. Others don't lockdown--with the best intentions--because they don't want their kid to end up saying "fuck this, I'm not a prisoner" and end up becoming runaways. If a kid is a runaway, you definitely can't help them anymore. Everyone has a different style of parenting and a different set of kids to work with. I don't know what I would have done in their particular situation because obviously the paper doesn't have all the details. Even if the parents succeeded in keeping her in at night, she still could have been captured before/after school. Is daytime abduction rape any better than nighttime coercion rape? Whoopi might know.

    It is boggling, though, that the focus ends up being on the unforeseen "mistakes" of the victim and the victims parents rather than the actual pre-meditated crimes of the rapists. Imagine the horror of finding out your child was the victim of an awful crime. Now imagine that the local community and the internet is saying it's due to your parenting. Would that really fly with any GR parents? "Sure, the criminals were planning the crime all along, but Mom should have known not to be on GR instead of watching their kid like they were conjoined twins!!" As if! No one seems to be asking where the rapists' parents were in all of this either. If anyone needs helicopter surveillance, it's kids who commit crimes, not kids who are innocent.
    Those guys are going to pay for what they did. They will be tried here in Texas. Probably the reason more people aren't focusing on the parents of the perps is because not a one of them were 11 - they were all teenage and up into their 20's. As the parent of an almost 13 year old, I DO know where my child is EVERY night. When I'm on GR, he's at school. These parents telling the reporters that their daughter was sneaking out of their house almost every night - so much so that they had to scold her nearly every day... is stupid. Its also careless and it is beyond a "mistake". You can call me a helicopter parent, that's ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by eeyore0101 View Post
    Even if they didn't threaten her that she had to come back for more, shit like that happening to you totally fucks up your mind. Feelings of worthlessness, that that's all that you're good for, so you might as well keep doing it happen to some people after an attack.

    So basically, my point is, I don't care why she went back again and I hope that whatever her reasons were won't sway the jury in any negative fashion. The bastards should fry.

    Rape is rape - whatever your parents are like, however you may have acted, whatever your age is, what your motives may have been to return - it's a nonissue. And the people in this town don't seem to be getting that.
    Agree. This was rape. It was repeated and horrible. Her parents actions/inactions have ZERO bearing on that aspect - in my mind.
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  10. #85
    Silver Member Working Girl's Avatar
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    That poor little girl i feel so sorry for her.

  11. #86
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    Default A New, Chilling Account Of What Happened To Eleven-Year-Old Alleged Rape Victim

    The September issue of GQ has a piece, not online, about the repeated gang-rape of an eleven-year-old child in Cleveland, Texas. And whereas previous coverage appalled observers for implicit victim-blaming, Kathy Dobie's story has the sensitivity (and the time and space) the tragedy deserves, though we still learn much more about the victim and her family than the perpetrators.

    There is plenty of new, upsetting material here, including details about the assault I prefer not to transcribe. Dobie spent time with the family of the girl (referred to here by her court pseudonym, Regina) and spoke to her parents and siblings, though apparently not the victim herself.


    Regina is described as "a quick learner, a chameleon," and as "deeply loyal": "You'd practically have to kill her to lose her love." (Dobie's words). Her mother, chronically ill with untreated tumors, calls her "my wild child," and says, "That girl could live on mirrors. That girl could live taking pictures of herself. She wants to be a model."


    Maria, Dobie writes, is indulgent to her youngest daughter, because she herself was raised in a strict, sometimes abusive family; later, Maria tells her about her stepfather sexually abusing her throughout her entire childhood, starting at age five.


    Dobie describes a sad, strange Facebook relationship Regina had with a 20-year-old man who backed off when he found out she was actually eleven, but who didn't mind ending it by saying, among other things, "fukk u." Regina was drawn to a neighborhood known, among other names, as the Check, for its "energy, the intricately woven web of relationships." It's implied that in spending so much time there, she sought excitement, affirmation, and to break from her neglectful parents:
    "According to her sister Elisa, 'Regina's actually ashamed to be Mexican.' [Her sister] Anna adds, 'Yeah, she thinks she's black.' Their father, Juan, dislikes black men — 'They're lazy and I don't know why they exist,' he says — so Regina told him she was going to marry one.'"
    It was in that neighborhood that she was repeatedly raped, after being told that "if she refused, [an older boy] would have some girls beat her up." A total of eight men and boys showed up to rape her that November day that was recorded for all the school to eventually see. There were, in all, four separate gang-rapes.


    After the November gang rape, "Regina tried to act as if nothing happened. Her exuberance had always been, in part, a ladder to climb up, up, up — far above every bad feeling and ugly situation that was beyond her capacity to handle." A local woman describes seeing Regina, a few days later, get knocked down by some men who come to pick her up and despite her attempted intervention, go with them anyway.


    Since the arrests, triggered by the distribution of the rape video, her parents have been charged with neglect, the father has abandoned the family, and Regina is in foster care perhaps indefinitely.


    The piece also recounts some familiar victim-blaming from town residents and outsiders alike, this time framed with both criticism and compassion. A thirteen-year-old girl who describes Regina as "like my best friend" writes "she ask for them to do that to her... i will never do that...she like a slut type of girl." A great-grandmother says of the boys, "A hard dick has no conscience."


    Outsiders blame her too, including Black Panther leader Quanell X, who announces, "I did not come here this evening to jump on an 11-year-old child" and asks, "How is that child in that community experiencing so much sex with so many African-American men? Where was the mother?" He is handed a printout of Regina's Facebook page, in which she wears an "oversize" Hooters T-shirt. Dobie says,
    That seemed to be enough to reassure the crowd that this was no ordinary 11-year-old girl. For some in the audience, though, it could've had the opposite effect, reminding them of all the posing they did when they were that age, the trying on of personae: wannabe gangstas, baby mamas. The headlong rush to grow up.
    Dobie comes to this topic with some perspective; she wrote a well-reviewed memoir, The Only Girl In The Car, about being the "slut" as a middle-class teenager, and at fifteen, being bullied by her boyfriend into "having sex" (it sounds a lot like rape, but I haven't read the book) with his three friends, an incident for which she would be subsequently tormented at school. Her road to that car was paved with curiosity and wanting to live an adventurous life like a boys, according to a review in Salon:
    It's not surprising, then, that Dobie found it so easy to be swept up in the desires of the "tribe," the "brotherhood" that she believed she had found among the boys of the teen center. As the only girl in the car, though, she was no longer a mere face in the crowd, but special, the one girl with the daring to act like a boy.
    Maybe that's also why there is very little about the perpetrators in this piece. (Though it wouldn't be surprising if it was easier to talk to a victim's family members than men and boys with serious charges pending against them.) Even at this level of reporting and compassion, this is still ultimately a piece in which we understand how the victim could have been vulnerable.



    This in itself doesn't seem so difficult to understand, irrespective of parental neglect or circumstances; all victim-blaming seems like rationalization to put space between yourself and the "kind of girl" that happens to.


    There is this, about the November incident that was recorded and passed around: "A number of other guys walked away from the house... once they understood what was about to go down. No one called the law, though, or tried to get Regina home." One boy shouts, "Call my mom!" as he is arrested in the middle of a school baseball game.


    But we remain without a a clue how her victimizers could do it, if this is even knowable. Though a men's magazine would be an interesting place to start figuring it out.




    A New, Chilling Account Of What Happened To Eleven-Year-Old Alleged Rape Victim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post
    Those guys are going to pay for what they did. They will be tried here in Texas. Probably the reason more people aren't focusing on the parents of the perps is because not a one of them were 11 - they were all teenage and up into their 20's. As the parent of an almost 13 year old, I DO know where my child is EVERY night. When I'm on GR, he's at school. These parents telling the reporters that their daughter was sneaking out of their house almost every night - so much so that they had to scold her nearly every day... is stupid. Its also careless and it is beyond a "mistake". You can call me a helicopter parent, that's ok.

    Agree. This was rape. It was repeated and horrible. Her parents actions/inactions have ZERO bearing on that aspect - in my mind.
    Well said. ITA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    I can't even deal with this story.
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    Her parents obviously aren't the brightest or best. It always makes me uncomfortable, though, how the first thought is "where were her parents to prevent this from happening?" The REAL question that should be asked is, "where were these BOYS' parents who taught them that they could disrespect and rape women?" They are infinitely worse in their parenting than this girl's parents ever could be. The true tragedy here is that we reinforce a kind of "boys will be boys" type of mentality by saying what we as women should do to protect us or our own children, instead of focusing on the fact that we need to raise REAL men who don't fuck up women, rape their women, or beat their women. I would gladly slice the dicks off of all of these beasts, beat the shit out of their parents, slap this girl's parents silly, and then take her home with me.
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  15. #90
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    Agree. Like I've said, I'm raising a son. My son would never think that something like this is ok, would never think that forcing anyone to do anything is ok. Of course, I then have to wonder how many of the mothers of these rapists thought the same thing.
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