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Thread: Appearance on Dr. Phil show leads to child abuse charge against Alaska woman

  1. #91
    Gold Member Froogy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    I also want to add---
    the measure of whether something is abuse or not, is NOT whether other people had it done to them and they turned out "just fine." Some, or possibly most, people are resilient.

    I agree and I did previously post that I was spanked and such. However, I dont consider what happened to me to be abuse in any form.

    I have never cowered in fear of my Dad, but I never offered to go first for spankings either. I loved and respected my father and still do. That is just the way he chose to discipline us.

    One of the funniest moments we still discuss is when it was time for spankings, and trust me, I had it coming and knew it. I put on every pair of underwear I owned. He started spanking and I could not stop laughing. He realized my brilliant idea and was laughing so hard we all got out of punishment that night.

    I am not tying to minimize what has happened to others by any means, I just wanted to justify why I commented the way I did and how it affected me personally.

  2. #92
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Wouldn't what this woman is doing cause distrust and acting out even if the child didn't have the orphanage background? Perhaps not on the same scale.
    An RAD kid doesn't trust anybody, and something like this is strong validation to himself that he's right to do so. Very difficult to undo.

    An otherwise normal & emotionally healthy child might be somewhat traumatized by something like this, and would definitely start learning to distrust *this* particular woman. It would take continued abuse a while before that distrust started to apply to other people.
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  3. #93
    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    I probably won't word this properly, but to me, even the most mundane thing can be abusive when the intent of the person doling it out is vindictive or enjoying it. If that makes sense?

    My father abused us under the guise of discipline, but he enjoyed it. He still retells stories of when he beat the shit out of one of us (or "spanked" us by his terminology). His eyes light up. He's sadistic.

    That's what I think of this woman. She (IMO) takes pleasure in "disciplining" this kid. And he's terrified of her. That's different than being fearful of consequences. There's actual fear in his face. That's not discipline.
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  4. #94
    Elite Member Sarzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwgirl View Post
    I probably won't word this properly, but to me, even the most mundane thing can be abusive when the intent of the person doling it out is vindictive or enjoying it. If that makes sense?

    My father abused us under the guise of discipline, but he enjoyed it. He still retells stories of when he beat the shit out of one of us (or "spanked" us by his terminology). His eyes light up. He's sadistic.

    That's what I think of this woman. She (IMO) takes pleasure in "disciplining" this kid. And he's terrified of her. That's different than being fearful of consequences. There's actual fear in his face. That's not discipline.
    That makes perfect sense to me. Sorry your dad was like that with you.

  5. #95
    Elite Member Lenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    I also want to add---
    the measure of whether something is abuse or not, is NOT whether other people had it done to them and they turned out "just fine." Some, or possibly most, people are resilient.
    My thoughts exactly! Kids who were neglected or sexually abused can turn out to be perfectly fine too but this doesn't mean that what was done to them wasn't wrong.

  6. #96
    Elite Member pinkbunnyslippers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    Forget bar soap. You have to use the liquid soap in the pump. We've done it twice for swearing. They don't swear anymore. At least, not in our presence.

    I had liquid soap too. Yep it sucked, but taught me not to do it again.

    Did she beat him? No Did she use an cord, broom, or switch? No It's a cold shower and hot sauce. If nothing else worked something has too. I hope that kid learned. I don't care what anyone says.
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  7. #97
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    But this clearly isn't working.

    And just because something doesn't leave marks, does not mean it is not abusive. What he has learned is to lie to try to desperately avoid punishment.

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  8. #98
    Elite Member Melyanna's Avatar
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    This is child abuse, in my opinion.
    The child is scared and traumatized and will only learn two things: 1) Do whatever you want as long as you don't to it in front of your mother and 2) Use violence to obtain what you want.
    And the fact that there are worse ways to abuse a child it doesn't mean that it's OK to turn a blind eye on this.

  9. #99
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Being that this was an adopted kid with no way to determine what he's been through before she got him, this was probably a bad idea.
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  10. #100
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    Would it be OK for a daycare to employ these methods on a child if the parents asked them for continuity of discipline? (just for debate)

    In my opinion the mother needs some major help, and has it been determined why the daughter was filming? I find the whole situation just heartbreaking and sad.

    I would be liable to go off on someone if I saw them treating a child like this around me though, it goes beyond discipline and into bullying. This mom acts psycho. And if I knew that was how one of my relatives or friends treated their kids, I might consider calling cps on them myself.

    I wish I could find the whole episode online I have searched high and low and cant find it anywhere.

  11. #101
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkbunnyslippers View Post
    I had liquid soap too. Yep it sucked, but taught me not to do it again.

    Did she beat him? No Did she use an cord, broom, or switch? No It's a cold shower and hot sauce. If nothing else worked something has too. I hope that kid learned. I don't care what anyone says.
    nothing my parents (or more exactly, my mother) did stopped me doing exactly what I wanted to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Melyanna View Post
    This is child abuse, in my opinion.
    The child is scared and traumatized and will only learn two things: 1) Do whatever you want as long as you don't to it in front of your mother and 2) Use violence to obtain what you want.
    And the fact that there are worse ways to abuse a child it doesn't mean that it's OK to turn a blind eye on this.
    Damn! My mother schizophrenically tells me I'm the more truthful person she knows and whenever I talk to adults about what was going on at home, she'd call me a liar & a fantasist to my face in front of them. I'm one of the most accomplished liars I know because of this (I call look her in the eye & lie my arse off, no twitches, nothing), I can be incredibly manipulative and I have a multitude of talents & personality traits that I dislike immensely and have tried hard to change. It also made it difficult for me to trust people in a close relationship, I'm also always waiting for shit to happen. I know that she ruined my life in a multitude of ways, but I've worked hard to rectify this, it still doesn't stop me regretting previous (poor) choices I made because of my up-bringing.
    Last edited by Novice; February 5th, 2011 at 03:14 PM.
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  12. #102
    Silver Member venue_26's Avatar
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    I was spanked growing up and I truly resent my mother for it. She even would let her 'boyfriend of the week' pull my pants down and spank me....probably until I was 10.
    My mother was a hitter, and because of it, I have no emotional bonding with her at all. I wasn't even a "bad" kid. Sure I made bad decisions and messed up, but I never put myself or anyone in danger.
    I've definitely been able to capitalize on my experiences now that I'm a parent. I've never once put a hand on my kids (7 and 3). I've been mad. I've been stressed, and boy, I've even yelled. However, it's at that point where I have to say (to my kids even), that I'm in a bad mood, I'm making bad decisions and I need to cool off.
    My kids see that I'm human and I make mistakes. They also see that I take responsibility for it and try to remedy the situation.
    My form of discipline: I get eye level with them and tell how their actions make me feel. I know, it sounds totally pussified, but when I'm on my knees in Target telling my 3 year old son (calmly) that I'm beginning to feel stressed and upset; or how he's really disappointing me and that I hate feeling disappointed in my children.......they just 'get' it.
    I just don't think there's any place for fear in parenting. Children have total dependence that their parents will feed them, keep them safe and love them.
    I understand that not every kid responds to the same thing...but think back in high school. The "bad" kids loved when they could piss the teacher off. It was an accomplishment and they had bragging rights. However, the teachers that just leveled with the class instead of losing it got much more done and was more respected ("hey guys, I know you're feeling rowdy, but if we can just get through this today, I promise you won't have homework").
    Eh.....I'm no expert. I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

  13. #103
    Elite Member stef's Avatar
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    ^^ i'm so sorry for what you and other members here had to endure.


    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Not going to watch the video, but I think forcing things into kids' mouths to hurt them is crossing the line. It's a show of brute force, in my opinion, and if NOTHING else works, then it may be time for some professional help. I have to wonder about the kid's issues anyway, having been adopted from Russia. He may have some real problems if he came from an orphanage-type situation. This is sad all the way around.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisNine View Post
    This is pretty much how I feel. It may not be abuse in the classic sense, but I don't feel discipline should be about pain.
    Quote Originally Posted by minime7 View Post
    This women is evil. I'm all for disciplining kids but her actions as well as her yelling at the poor kid who is shaking and crying in fear is just plain wrong. That cold shower part where the kid is screaming is crazy.
    i totally agree. maybe i could kind of understand this if the kid was a real brat, acting out, being aggressive, etc., but he's clearly none of that. he's so afraid of her, watching this breaks my heart.
    as someone has previously said, some of you may have been treated in a similar way and turned out fine, but that doesn't mean this is an acceptable way to treat a child (or anyone). i didn't even know that putting soap or hot sauce into a kid's mouth was a common form of punishment.
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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    nothing my parents (or more exactly, my mother) did stopped me doing exactly what I wanted to do.
    Yep. In fact, all the screaming, slapping around and hair pulling probably made me more defiant in the long run. I might have snuck around and been more secretive if my parents had invested an ounce of thought into their punishment strategy.

    No, I got bigger. I knew I would. They couldn't slap me around anymore and I loved showing them how little power they had.

    Quote Originally Posted by venue_26 View Post
    I was spanked growing up and I truly resent my mother for it. She even would let her 'boyfriend of the week' pull my pants down and spank me....probably until I was 10.
    See, reading this kind of shit makes my blood boil (which is why I didn't watch the video.) I become 10 again and want to kill your bitch mother and her BFOTW.

    Couldn't tell you where the line is between discipline and abuse, but when I "feel" it's been crossed, the rage starts.
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  15. #105
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Wahh. I got spanked, cracked across the butt with a belt, soap in the mouth and all the rest of it. I didn't grow up hating my parents.

    Although it was funny when my mother tried to tan my hide at 12, and i yanked the belt out of her hand and chased her around with it, both of us ending up laughing
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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