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Thread: A Song of Ice and Fire - GRRM

  1. #46
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    I'm about halfway through Kari. I'm loving it because I'm a bit of a Targaryen fangirl, but I find the style of writing a little strange - it's really like reading a historical account, rather than a novel or a story. I know this was his intention but I'm finding it a little clinical and hard to get a feel for the characters. And there's absolutely no description (which is unheard of for GRRM) except for the dragons - he goes to great lengths to describe the colour of their scales, but you get no sense of what anyone else looks like (and with the Targaryens it's important to know if they all have silver gold hair and purple eyes).

    I'll get back to you when I've finished (probably later today!).
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  2. #47
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Ooh yay glad you're reading! I thought the same, apparently the editor chopped a colossal amount of stuff out of it and that's why it feels weird.

  3. #48
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    I'm finally up to Dance With Dragons and... I kind of don't want to start. Because if I do, then I'll soon be finished and then I'll have to join everyone else in waiting impatiently for The Winds of Winter.

    I'd love to get all these short stories too. Where do people get the Dunk and Egg books from? I'm not keen to buy anthologies with other stuff in it, but do want to read these books.

  4. #49
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Yeah unfortch they're buried in the anthologies. There are graphic novel versions being made but at the moment I think it's only the first Dunk and Egg that's been finished.

    I'm not too impatient for Winds just yet... by this time next year I might be getting a bit antsy, but the waits for the ASOIF books have been so colossal that I can't complain.
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on

  5. #50
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    You didn't hear it from me but if you google the titles of the D&E books and add "pdf" you might find what you're looking for...
    Sassiness likes this.
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  6. #51
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double post.

    OK Kari I've read it - I'm sad about all the dragons, and there was so much to absorb that I think I might read it again over the weekend just so I can figure out who's who and how they relate to Westeros during the War of 5 Kings.

    And I really want to know who Nettles is and what happened to her!
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  7. #52
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Totally agree! It was interesting, I was listening to a podcast review and they were all saying how glad they were that the dragons were gone, but all I could feel was sad when they were fighting each other to the death. There are still dragons on the loose at the end of the book, and I totally want to know about Nettles too. I wonder if any kids she has with Daeron/Daemon/OldPerv? will hook up with the Blackfyres, I think Bloodraven and Bittersteel are only a generation or two away? The Targaryen family tree is so confusing since they all intermarry with each other.

    Oh you know what was really interesting (and also really sad) was when Rhaenyra's baby girl was stillborn - and it had all dragony features like poor Dany's baby in Game of Thrones. I always thought Mirri Maz Duur was bullshitting but perhaps not? What's with that, does that mean they have real actual dragon blood?
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on

  8. #53
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    Yes the baby girl was very similar to Rhaego with the stubby tail. I've got a feeling there is some secret Targ ritual involving unborn children and fire which bonds them with the dragons - I'll have to trawl the forums to see if anyone else has done research on it, but it struck me that when Dany did her fire/dragon trick it had something to do with her losing the baby...?

    And I hope GRRM elaborates on the generations in between the DoD and the Bloodraven/Blackfyre/D&E era Targs because there are a lot of hints that just leave me wanting more! I think there's maybe 70-80 years between the DoD and D&E, but Bloodraven and Bittersteel are grown men by then so there might only be 50 years or so between the end of the Dance and the time Aegon IV started breeding the Great Bastards.

    Lots of homework!

    eta Why do people hate the dragons? I think they're awesome and the stories wouldn't be nearly as good without them. I want MOAR DRAGONS!!111!!!
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  9. #54
    Elite Member Karistiona's Avatar
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    Oh that's an interesting thought, I sort of saw it the other way - that the only common thing between the two babies was their Targaryen heritage. Intriguing. I would bet that someone on Westeros is doing some research on that right now!

    The generations in between DoD and the Blackfyre Rebellion seem pretty raucous, there's a whole bunch of kings, plus all the gubbins with Dunk and Egg. I love me some Bloodraven. Can't wait to hear more of that stuff

    I think people hated the dragons because they're sort of like nuclear weapons, hugely dangerous and they sort of negate the need for the big armies that you see in the Song books. I loooooved them, they were so cool.

    I had something else I wanted to talk about with this too and it's gone completely out of my head, I'll edit later if I remember it.
    I smile because I have no idea what's going on

  10. #55
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    Dragons are always freakin' cool.

    As for the Blackfyres/Targaryens, I am hoping that the fan theory about Aegon is true. Will spoilerise it for those who don't want to know.
    [yo spoilers]So the theory is that Aegon is fake - the whole myth of swapping babies etc that Varys and Jon Connington talk about it bullshit. Ilyrio married a female Blackfyre, and "Aegon" is their son - which is why he looks like a Targ, getting those features from the Blackfyre line. Varys and Ilyrio are less concerned with getting the rightful Targ on the Iron Throne as they are with getting their ideal king on the throne.

    The theory is that Jon C older is clueless and believes the bullshit, and has consequently appropriately indoctrinated Young Griff/FAegon in the story so it's convincing. It explains why Ilyrio, a man who seemingly has no fucks to give about Westeros, is involved in the battle for the Iron Throne at all. Why Varys joined him is subject to a variety of theories.
    [end spoiler theory]

    I like this idea. It would also be a good set up for R+L=J, in terms of questioning parental lineage and assuming that just because someone looks like House Whatever that they actually are.

  11. #56
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    SPOILERS AHEAD - (I CANT FIGURE OUT SPOILER TAGS ON MY IPAD)


    YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!

    SORRY FOR ALL THE SHOUTING!


    I've seen that theory discussed at length on the ASOIAF forums where it's pretty much taken as fact but I don't really like it tbh. It's possible Aegon is actually fAegon, and that Varys and Illyrio are involved, but I don't see any real evidence for Blackfyre family connections with either of them, and to me it's more like wishful thinking on the part of some fans who have to kill time in the decades between books by overanalysing every word for foreshadowing (which frankly I don't get - sure I like to speculate and look for clues and solve mysteries, but I'm happy to let he author write the books instead of me trying to anticipate the outcome of every single storyline - where's the fun in that?) and coming up with hidden meanings in every fucking detail. Most of it is harmless fun but some posters over there are so certain about their theories that they get very hostile when noobs want to argue. Some of them will be very upset when the final 2 books come out and shatter their theories (they can't all be right!) if the fan outrage at the end of the Sookie Stackhouse series is anything to go by.

    Anyway back to fAegon - I love the Blackfyre/Bloodraven/Bittersteel saga but that was over a century beforehand and any Blackfyre descendants (if they exist) would be so far removed from the Targ family tree that I can't see why Varys would want to restore them or see them as legitimate claimants who would be welcomed by the Westerosi. What's to be gained - they're not likely to bring stability if their many failed rebellions are anything to go by. I will concede though that GRRM talks an awful lot about the Blackfyres which makes me think they still have some part to play. I think (hope) Bloodraven has an even bigger part to play because he's fucking awesome.

    fAegon-festo!
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  12. #57
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    Bloodraven is freaking cool. Can't work out if he's "good" or "bad".... same with the Children of the Forest. It's all super creepy weird shit, but it's awesome.

    I'm pretty sure that R+L=J is kosher, because when you read the books having read that theory before, it's SO obvious!

    I'm open minded to teh FAegon theory. But why does Varys want Ilyrio's son on the throne? That's the bit that's weird.

  13. #58
    Elite Member faithanne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sassiness View Post

    I'm open minded to teh FAegon theory. But why does Varys want Ilyrio's son on the throne? That's the bit that's weird.
    Well that's one bit that's weird, there are heaps. I'm open to the theory too but it's awfully convoluted and doesn't really explain how fAegon would be best for the realm, which Varys repeatedly states is his only motivation. The son of a cheesemonger and some wench who might be a Blackfyre descendant - this awesome plan is going to unite the 7 Kingdoms?

    And why didn't Varys admit it to Kevan Lannister in the epilogue? There was no point lying to a dying man.
    "You're going to die tomorrow, Lord Bolton. Sleep well."



  14. #59
    Elite Member Sassiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithanne View Post
    And why didn't Varys admit it to Kevan Lannister in the epilogue? There was no point lying to a dying man.
    well he is surrounded by many "little birds" - who could be reporting to Ilyrio as well as Varys. Could have been for their benefit!

    I think "best for the realm" is because they've trained Aegon to be the ideal king - or at least think they have. After the madness of Aerys, inattentive drunkeness of King Bob and chaos of Joffrey and then Cersai's regency of Tommen, it wouldn't be hard to be an improvement!

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